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Yes, Hacker News is a lot better than Facebook, I think. Here, the crowd seems to skew extremely libertarian and contrarian and really, really, really, really,

Yes, Hacker News is a lot better than Facebook, I think. Here, the crowd seems to skew extremely libertarian and contrarian and really, really, really, really, really kneejerk hates JavaScript, but on Facebook I was regularly seeing hate speech and conspiracy theories. I do think one is worse than the other.

s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
As a libertarian with -10 karma, this comment is hilariously wrong (I had a lot more before I started speaking my mind) This site, like most, is a liberal echo chamber. Though I will say it's still a decent place to have a debate as long as you are fine with fighting 10v1 and going negative, which I am. The most frustrating thing is the post limit you run into when you get flagged/negative karma. It's really annoying to be in a debate and not be able to reply. I abuse the edit feature to get around it, but that's limited. Also the ability to only downvote with 500+ karma leads to group think. Only the high karma users with the popular opinions can downvote, and they certainly use it.
- klyrs 6y ago
  You don't need popular opinions to maintain positive karma. Slow down on the politics and be relevant on tech-oriented topics. I've seen you do it. I believe in you.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
    My point to GP was that libertarian views are not popular, I don't really care about karma. I love discussing all topics on HN that I'm passionate and informed about, including politics. When I do see political topics (which is often these days) and such a one sided view, I feel the need to voice the other side.
    - klyrs 6y ago
      > When I do see political topics (which is often these days) and such a one sided view, I feel the need to voice the other side. Me too, but I thank the slowdown-bot because slowdowning is generally a good idea in life. Forced to take time, you'll probably write a better response anyway. Knowing that you're slowdowned, you're forced to be more strategic in what you choose to respond to. It's a gift.
      - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
        I don't disagree that everyone should think carefully about there responses to others, I certainly do. The slowdown for me is about 3 posts every 5 hours it seems. I'm not aware of the exact limits, do you know?
        klyrs 6y ago
        No, rather than test its limits, I find that chill is the better choice.
        s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
        Ah you used the term "slowdown-bot" so I figured you had specific knowledge. Posting 3 comments in half a day is not really testing the limits, there is plenty of chill time.
- danans 6y ago
  > Though I will say it's still a decent place to have a debate as long as you are fine with ... going negative, which I am. Just a hunch, but that might explain a lot of your negative karma. A lot of people here enjoy civil, friendly debates people who they disagree with completely on a given topic, but "going negative" is a great way to send your karma down. Stay away from negativity directed at others, use charity in your arguments, and above all, don't be sarcastic, and your karma will rise, regardless of the topic. And to be clear, I'm speaking from my own experience here and on other internet forums or mailing lists.
  - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
    You misconstrued that quote, all that sentence meant was I'm fine with defending sides that I know are unpopular and will lose me karma. Most importantly to gain karma you need to choose the "correct" side, like you do. Ya'know, the Beto gun confiscation side. If you go against the crowd you will be downvoted, period. That's no surprise, I'm just giving you guys insight what it's like outside the bubble. It's definitely not mainstream libertarian here.
    - danans 6y ago
      > You misconstrued that quote, all that sentence meant was I'm fine with defending sides that I know are unpopular and will lose me karma. Ok. That's an novel meaning of the phrase "going negative" to me, but you know what you meant. > Most importantly to gain karma you need to choose the "correct" side, like you do. Ya'know, the Beto gun confiscation side. You misread my comment [1] on that subject. I didn't take the pro gun-confiscation side in that comment. I addressed another comment about how the assault-weapon confiscation procedure would take place if they were in fact banned. Whether or not I support a ban on assault weapons (I do) was irrelevant to the comment. You might notice that I also argued that if a ban were put in place, that owners of those weapons must be given the opportunity to voluntarily turn in those weapons without the immediate threat of violence being used against them. > It's definitely not mainstream libertarian here. Sure. It more neoliberal (lower taxes, less social safety net) than the anarcho-capitalist or ethno-nationalist libertarianism that you might see elsewhere. But all those viewpoints are represented here, as are democratic socialist (like me), labor unionists, and other shades of the political left. Outside of the ethno-nationalists, most of those viewpoints don't get downvoted unless they use personally offensive rhetoric (i.e demeaning particular demographics, advocating violence against the rich, contempt for the poor, etc). A viewpoint that gets downvoted no-matter-what is ethno-nationalism. I'm OK with that, because I think we have plenty of documented history of ethno-nationalism to understand why it has no place in public discourse. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23656498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23656498
baryphonic 6y ago
> Yes, Hacker News is a lot better than Facebook, I think. Here, the crowd seems to skew extremely libertarian and contrarian... HN's more balanced and tolerant than most tech communities (including the StackExchange network and especially Twitter), but it still skews quite left. If I ever show an indecent amount (by Silicon Valley standards) of libertarian-contrarian tendencies, I get thrashed and downvoted to Hell. That said, I have learned some of the libertarian-contrarian (or, really, non-Progressive) land mines to avoid in HN discussions, and tend to get up-votes. That said, this comment (third most upvoted comment under OP) is pretty typical of the soft authoritarianism prominent on HN. I have no particular love for Fox News or even Facebook (I kind of dislike them both and don't consume either), but what they do is kind of up to them and their viewers/users. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23657692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23657692 So, anyway, HN is left with a small-ish but dense pocket of libertarian-contrarians, the Valley is left of HN, Tech Twitter is left of the Valley.

s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago

As a libertarian with -10 karma, this comment is hilariously wrong (I had a lot more before I started speaking my mind) This site, like most, is a liberal echo chamber. Though I will say it's still a decent place to have a debate as long as you are fine with fighting 10v1 and going negative, which I am. The most frustrating thing is the post limit you run into when you get flagged/negative karma. It's really annoying to be in a debate and not be able to reply. I abuse the edit feature to get around it, but that's limited. Also the ability to only downvote with 500+ karma leads to group think. Only the high karma users with the popular opinions can downvote, and they certainly use it.

klyrs 6y ago
You don't need popular opinions to maintain positive karma. Slow down on the politics and be relevant on tech-oriented topics. I've seen you do it. I believe in you.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
  My point to GP was that libertarian views are not popular, I don't really care about karma. I love discussing all topics on HN that I'm passionate and informed about, including politics. When I do see political topics (which is often these days) and such a one sided view, I feel the need to voice the other side.
  - klyrs 6y ago
    > When I do see political topics (which is often these days) and such a one sided view, I feel the need to voice the other side. Me too, but I thank the slowdown-bot because slowdowning is generally a good idea in life. Forced to take time, you'll probably write a better response anyway. Knowing that you're slowdowned, you're forced to be more strategic in what you choose to respond to. It's a gift.
    - s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
      I don't disagree that everyone should think carefully about there responses to others, I certainly do. The slowdown for me is about 3 posts every 5 hours it seems. I'm not aware of the exact limits, do you know?
      - klyrs 6y ago
        No, rather than test its limits, I find that chill is the better choice.
        s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
        Ah you used the term "slowdown-bot" so I figured you had specific knowledge. Posting 3 comments in half a day is not really testing the limits, there is plenty of chill time.
danans 6y ago
> Though I will say it's still a decent place to have a debate as long as you are fine with ... going negative, which I am. Just a hunch, but that might explain a lot of your negative karma. A lot of people here enjoy civil, friendly debates people who they disagree with completely on a given topic, but "going negative" is a great way to send your karma down. Stay away from negativity directed at others, use charity in your arguments, and above all, don't be sarcastic, and your karma will rise, regardless of the topic. And to be clear, I'm speaking from my own experience here and on other internet forums or mailing lists.
- s_y_n_t_a_x 6y ago
  You misconstrued that quote, all that sentence meant was I'm fine with defending sides that I know are unpopular and will lose me karma. Most importantly to gain karma you need to choose the "correct" side, like you do. Ya'know, the Beto gun confiscation side. If you go against the crowd you will be downvoted, period. That's no surprise, I'm just giving you guys insight what it's like outside the bubble. It's definitely not mainstream libertarian here.
  - danans 6y ago
    > You misconstrued that quote, all that sentence meant was I'm fine with defending sides that I know are unpopular and will lose me karma. Ok. That's an novel meaning of the phrase "going negative" to me, but you know what you meant. > Most importantly to gain karma you need to choose the "correct" side, like you do. Ya'know, the Beto gun confiscation side. You misread my comment [1] on that subject. I didn't take the pro gun-confiscation side in that comment. I addressed another comment about how the assault-weapon confiscation procedure would take place if they were in fact banned. Whether or not I support a ban on assault weapons (I do) was irrelevant to the comment. You might notice that I also argued that if a ban were put in place, that owners of those weapons must be given the opportunity to voluntarily turn in those weapons without the immediate threat of violence being used against them. > It's definitely not mainstream libertarian here. Sure. It more neoliberal (lower taxes, less social safety net) than the anarcho-capitalist or ethno-nationalist libertarianism that you might see elsewhere. But all those viewpoints are represented here, as are democratic socialist (like me), labor unionists, and other shades of the political left. Outside of the ethno-nationalists, most of those viewpoints don't get downvoted unless they use personally offensive rhetoric (i.e demeaning particular demographics, advocating violence against the rich, contempt for the poor, etc). A viewpoint that gets downvoted no-matter-what is ethno-nationalism. I'm OK with that, because I think we have plenty of documented history of ethno-nationalism to understand why it has no place in public discourse. 1. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23656498 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23656498

baryphonic 6y ago

> Yes, Hacker News is a lot better than Facebook, I think. Here, the crowd seems to skew extremely libertarian and contrarian... HN's more balanced and tolerant than most tech communities (including the StackExchange network and especially Twitter), but it still skews quite left. If I ever show an indecent amount (by Silicon Valley standards) of libertarian-contrarian tendencies, I get thrashed and downvoted to Hell. That said, I have learned some of the libertarian-contrarian (or, really, non-Progressive) land mines to avoid in HN discussions, and tend to get up-votes. That said, this comment (third most upvoted comment under OP) is pretty typical of the soft authoritarianism prominent on HN. I have no particular love for Fox News or even Facebook (I kind of dislike them both and don't consume either), but what they do is kind of up to them and their viewers/users. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23657692 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23657692 So, anyway, HN is left with a small-ish but dense pocket of libertarian-contrarians, the Valley is left of HN, Tech Twitter is left of the Valley.