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Xbox One architecture talk (2019): https://www.platformsecuritysummit.com/2019/speaker/chen/ https://www.platformsecuritysummit.com/2019/speaker/chen/ > Every

Xbox One architecture talk (2019): https://www.platformsecuritysummit.com/2019/speaker/chen/ https://www.platformsecuritysummit.com/2019/speaker/chen/ > Every game console since the first Atari was more or less designed to prevent the piracy of games and yet every single game console has been successfully modified to enable piracy. However, this trend has come to an end. Both the Xbox One and the PS4 have now been on the market for close to 6 years, without hackers being able to crack the system to enable piracy or cheating. This is the first time in history that game consoles have lasted this long without being cracked to enable piracy. In this talk, we will discuss how we achieved this for the Xbox One. We will first describe the Xbox security design goals and why it needs to guard against hardware attacks, followed by descriptions of the hardware and software architecture to keep the Xbox secure. This includes details about the custom SoC we built with AMD and how we addressed the fact that all data read from flash, the hard drive, and even DRAM cannot be trusted. We will also discuss the corresponding software changes we made to keep the system and the games secure.

favokus 6y ago
Uh, I'm confused. The PS4 has been cracked. Jailbreaks exist. And yes, they enable piracy. But like any console that is still being actively supported/updated by the manufacturer, it requires a certain firmware version (or below).
- Thaxll 6y ago
  None of the recent firmware have been cracked.
  - favokus 6y ago
    But the PS4 has been cracked. Newest firmware or not is a bit irrelevant. Once Sony stops supporting the PS4, we're going to see the latest firmware get cracked too. That's usually how it goes. There are a number of private exploits going up to 7.00 (and possibly higher). For fuck's sake, stop downvoting. Stupid assholes. > Both the Xbox One and the PS4 have now been on the market for close to 6 years, without hackers being able to crack the system to enable piracy or cheating. This is the first time in history that game consoles have lasted this long without being cracked to enable piracy. The PS4 has been cracked to enable piracy. That's a fucking fact. I can literally go on Ebay right now and buy myself a hackable PS4 and download a bunch of games and go nuts. So you guys can go eat shit.
  - dvdbloc 6y ago
    Yet
    - elcomet 6y ago
      For 3 years. If it takes 3 years to crack and Sony can update in a few months (and force update or games won't run), cracks are uselss
      - jsheard 6y ago
        Sony even managed to pre-emptively fix that last exploit a few months before it became known to the public, so users who were actively using their PS4 and allowing it to update unknowingly locked themselves out of jailbreaking before they had the chance. The prospects of jailbreaking the next gen consoles really aren't looking good given the PS4 was this much of a PITA and the Xbox One has been completely bulletproof for its entire life.
- muricula 6y ago
  Yes. The talk was given by an xbox architect, and iirc he mentions he's not sure about the state of the PS4. It's a great talk and if you're interested in security you should give it a watch.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
- jsheard 6y ago
  That's true, but Sony has been successful in making jailbreaking unfeasible for most people. The only path to a jailbroken PS4 today is to find one that's been sitting in a drawer without being updated for over 3 years, and even if you get that far there's no workaround for the version check on newer games so you can't play anything (legitimately or otherwise) that require firmware newer than the last exploitable version from 3 years ago, which rules out quite a few killer app exclusives. Unlike past generations you can't just brute force it with hardware modifications either, the security is so deeply embedded in the SoC now that there's no way to touch it. Without a software exploit you're shit out of luck.
- cortesoft 6y ago
  Do the jailbreaks let you play online with pirated games?
  - landr0id 6y ago
    Yes. The problem though is as soon as the vulnerability used in the exploit becomes public Sony pushes out a patch.
    - HenryKissinger 6y ago
      That's not a problem at all.
vmception 6y ago
Well this is false. But I can say that I became disinterested in piracy when they made getting games more convenient than piracy. When they made using the hardware closer to its full potential part of the default experience. When they got the pricing right for these “premium” but pretty basic features. And of course, personally having the disposable income to afford the content because I would have never been a customer when I was pirating, only an unpaid evangelist of the franchise.
- bluedino 6y ago
  It’s still hard to beat “free”
  - 4ec0755f5522 6y ago
    I bought an Xbox just for gamepass. 200+ games, may not have everything I want to play but it always has something I fun I do want to play. (Also xbox sales are often very good. I'm ok paying $10-20 (sometimes less!) for games). I suppose it helps that my backlog is 6 years now; up until last week I was still playing games on 360/ps3.
    - acomjean 6y ago
      My partner has a ps4 and some subscription thing (PS now?). It ends up being about 6$/month and new games are available each month (including some AAA). If each month you add them to your library you quickly end up with a backlog of more games than you can play. games seems to loose value rapidly after they are released so some are very affordable.
    - recursive 6y ago
      I just can't get over the idea that a game I'm playing today might be removed from gamepass tomorrow. As a result, I don't want to play anything on gamepass, or subscribe. Although I think I might have somehow accidentally subscribed anyway. I'll stick to gold.
      - 6y ago
zerr 6y ago
Why bother? Those who "pirate" will never convert to paid customers so why not let kids from some landlocked African country or rural India enjoy games?
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- fwip 6y ago
  A) a lot of people who do pirate in console are current customers. They spend quite a bit of money to get access to "every game ever" and stop buying new games. B) a lot of other ones hack the console in order to play hacked copies of the game in multiplayer, which ruins the experience for paying customers.
- jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
  > Those who "pirate" will never convert to paid customers That's not true. Many people won’t pay for something if they can get it for free reasonably easy.

favokus 6y ago

Uh, I'm confused. The PS4 has been cracked. Jailbreaks exist. And yes, they enable piracy. But like any console that is still being actively supported/updated by the manufacturer, it requires a certain firmware version (or below).

Thaxll 6y ago
None of the recent firmware have been cracked.
- favokus 6y ago
  But the PS4 has been cracked. Newest firmware or not is a bit irrelevant. Once Sony stops supporting the PS4, we're going to see the latest firmware get cracked too. That's usually how it goes. There are a number of private exploits going up to 7.00 (and possibly higher). For fuck's sake, stop downvoting. Stupid assholes. > Both the Xbox One and the PS4 have now been on the market for close to 6 years, without hackers being able to crack the system to enable piracy or cheating. This is the first time in history that game consoles have lasted this long without being cracked to enable piracy. The PS4 has been cracked to enable piracy. That's a fucking fact. I can literally go on Ebay right now and buy myself a hackable PS4 and download a bunch of games and go nuts. So you guys can go eat shit.
- dvdbloc 6y ago
  Yet
  - elcomet 6y ago
    For 3 years. If it takes 3 years to crack and Sony can update in a few months (and force update or games won't run), cracks are uselss
    - jsheard 6y ago
      Sony even managed to pre-emptively fix that last exploit a few months before it became known to the public, so users who were actively using their PS4 and allowing it to update unknowingly locked themselves out of jailbreaking before they had the chance. The prospects of jailbreaking the next gen consoles really aren't looking good given the PS4 was this much of a PITA and the Xbox One has been completely bulletproof for its entire life.
muricula 6y ago
Yes. The talk was given by an xbox architect, and iirc he mentions he's not sure about the state of the PS4. It's a great talk and if you're interested in security you should give it a watch.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
jsheard 6y ago
That's true, but Sony has been successful in making jailbreaking unfeasible for most people. The only path to a jailbroken PS4 today is to find one that's been sitting in a drawer without being updated for over 3 years, and even if you get that far there's no workaround for the version check on newer games so you can't play anything (legitimately or otherwise) that require firmware newer than the last exploitable version from 3 years ago, which rules out quite a few killer app exclusives. Unlike past generations you can't just brute force it with hardware modifications either, the security is so deeply embedded in the SoC now that there's no way to touch it. Without a software exploit you're shit out of luck.
cortesoft 6y ago
Do the jailbreaks let you play online with pirated games?
- landr0id 6y ago
  Yes. The problem though is as soon as the vulnerability used in the exploit becomes public Sony pushes out a patch.
  - HenryKissinger 6y ago
    That's not a problem at all.

vmception 6y ago

Well this is false. But I can say that I became disinterested in piracy when they made getting games more convenient than piracy. When they made using the hardware closer to its full potential part of the default experience. When they got the pricing right for these “premium” but pretty basic features. And of course, personally having the disposable income to afford the content because I would have never been a customer when I was pirating, only an unpaid evangelist of the franchise.

bluedino 6y ago
It’s still hard to beat “free”
- 4ec0755f5522 6y ago
  I bought an Xbox just for gamepass. 200+ games, may not have everything I want to play but it always has something I fun I do want to play. (Also xbox sales are often very good. I'm ok paying $10-20 (sometimes less!) for games). I suppose it helps that my backlog is 6 years now; up until last week I was still playing games on 360/ps3.
  - acomjean 6y ago
    My partner has a ps4 and some subscription thing (PS now?). It ends up being about 6$/month and new games are available each month (including some AAA). If each month you add them to your library you quickly end up with a backlog of more games than you can play. games seems to loose value rapidly after they are released so some are very affordable.
  - recursive 6y ago
    I just can't get over the idea that a game I'm playing today might be removed from gamepass tomorrow. As a result, I don't want to play anything on gamepass, or subscribe. Although I think I might have somehow accidentally subscribed anyway. I'll stick to gold.
    - 6y ago

zerr 6y ago

Why bother? Those who "pirate" will never convert to paid customers so why not let kids from some landlocked African country or rural India enjoy games?

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
fwip 6y ago
A) a lot of people who do pirate in console are current customers. They spend quite a bit of money to get access to "every game ever" and stop buying new games. B) a lot of other ones hack the console in order to play hacked copies of the game in multiplayer, which ruins the experience for paying customers.
jfkebwjsbx 6y ago
> Those who "pirate" will never convert to paid customers That's not true. Many people won’t pay for something if they can get it for free reasonably easy.