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The Arab Spring lead to possibly one democracy (Tunisia), otherwise it lead to minor reforms, horrific civil war (Syria, Yemen, Libya), or a theocratic dictator

The Arab Spring lead to possibly one democracy (Tunisia), otherwise it lead to minor reforms, horrific civil war (Syria, Yemen, Libya), or a theocratic dictatorship and then a military coup (Egypt).

varjag 6y ago
Syria is largely a result of foreign interference. Namely, Iran early on and Russia since 2015. Without them, Assad would've been done with 7 years ago. Libya, where international community did stop the dictator early, ended up infinitely better even with ongoing civil strife. It's like an A/B test for non-interventionism. The coup in Egypt was so swift that there was no time for then hypothetical Islamist dictatorship to form.
- analyte123 6y ago
  What makes one thing "foreign interference" and the other the "international community"? Besides that, I agree with you on Syria: many deaths could have been avoided if the US had refrained from sending billions of dollars of money and weapons to various armed groups there.
- worik 6y ago
  Lybia too the result of foreign interference. Europe and USA
  - qserasera 6y ago
    Led by France.
- Aunche 6y ago
  >Libya... ended up infinitely better even with ongoing civil strife Better how? In the 2 civil wars, tens of thousands of people got killed, millions got displaced, and oil production never recovered. Since the country is so fragmented, they can't do anything about the ongoing pandemic. Even Obama refers to Libya has his greatest mistake.
- creato 6y ago
  There is never going to be any major political upheaval without foreign intervention. Furthermore, foreign intervention is usually welcomed, it rarely just happens in a vacuum. Sometimes it's rebels, sometimes it's the incumbent government, it's usually both. The fact is that a country undergoing a revolution or even just significant unrest is very weak, and weakness will be exploited.
- andrepd 6y ago
  Libya is definitely not better after Khadafi... It was a reasonably stable place (despite the murderous despot, lesser evil etc) that was irrevocably fucked by the intervention. Surely you don't think the Western campaign was done out of the goodness of our hearts and love of democracy?
- pell 6y ago
  Libyan prisons and camps have been called "concentration-camp-like" by Germany's foreign office. There are mountains of evidence of prisoners and refugees being subjected to systemic rape, murders, enslavement and forced participation to fight in the war. Ghaddafi's Libya was a terrible dictatorship. Libya now is in the middle of a gruesome civil war. Horrific human rights abuse is the absolute norm.
malinens 6y ago
actually at that time almost nobody in those countries were using twitter/facebook

The Arab Spring lead to possibly one democracy (Tunisia), otherwise it lead to minor reforms, horrific civil war (Syria, Yemen, Libya), or a theocratic dictatorship and then a military coup (Egypt).

varjag 6y ago

Syria is largely a result of foreign interference. Namely, Iran early on and Russia since 2015. Without them, Assad would've been done with 7 years ago. Libya, where international community did stop the dictator early, ended up infinitely better even with ongoing civil strife. It's like an A/B test for non-interventionism. The coup in Egypt was so swift that there was no time for then hypothetical Islamist dictatorship to form.

analyte123 6y ago
What makes one thing "foreign interference" and the other the "international community"? Besides that, I agree with you on Syria: many deaths could have been avoided if the US had refrained from sending billions of dollars of money and weapons to various armed groups there.
worik 6y ago
Lybia too the result of foreign interference. Europe and USA
- qserasera 6y ago
  Led by France.
Aunche 6y ago
>Libya... ended up infinitely better even with ongoing civil strife Better how? In the 2 civil wars, tens of thousands of people got killed, millions got displaced, and oil production never recovered. Since the country is so fragmented, they can't do anything about the ongoing pandemic. Even Obama refers to Libya has his greatest mistake.
creato 6y ago
There is never going to be any major political upheaval without foreign intervention. Furthermore, foreign intervention is usually welcomed, it rarely just happens in a vacuum. Sometimes it's rebels, sometimes it's the incumbent government, it's usually both. The fact is that a country undergoing a revolution or even just significant unrest is very weak, and weakness will be exploited.
andrepd 6y ago
Libya is definitely not better after Khadafi... It was a reasonably stable place (despite the murderous despot, lesser evil etc) that was irrevocably fucked by the intervention. Surely you don't think the Western campaign was done out of the goodness of our hearts and love of democracy?
pell 6y ago
Libyan prisons and camps have been called "concentration-camp-like" by Germany's foreign office. There are mountains of evidence of prisoners and refugees being subjected to systemic rape, murders, enslavement and forced participation to fight in the war. Ghaddafi's Libya was a terrible dictatorship. Libya now is in the middle of a gruesome civil war. Horrific human rights abuse is the absolute norm.

malinens 6y ago

actually at that time almost nobody in those countries were using twitter/facebook