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when moneyed-interests can make money by appealing to what non-moneyed people want, then there is alignment. this happens often in consumer products, including

when moneyed-interests can make money by appealing to what non-moneyed people want, then there is alignment. this happens often in consumer products, including coca-cola, which I guess you're confusingly suggesting is an example of a smashing achievement of capitalism. other problems, such as with providing universal healthcare, ending homelessness, poverty, etc, are inherently non-profitable, so moneyed people won't invest in it, so those problems don't get solved by capitalism.

Mirioron 6y ago
>other problems, such as with providing universal healthcare, ending homelessness, poverty, etc, are inherently non-profitable These are also problems that have no real solution outside of a general economic improvement. Universal healthcare is a black hole for money. You can literally spend all of the money in the world on it and you'd still be lacking in funding. It's a problem space that expands the more we learn about it requiring even more funding to actually help people. Gene therapies are so expensive that if universal healthcare offered them the governments would go bankrupt. Yet the hope is that as we improve our understanding we can improve the price. Antibiotics cost next to nothing in developed countries. 200 years ago you could've been the richest person on Earth and you still couldn't get them. Homelessness is a multifaceted problem. If you look at it from the perspective of trying to build more homes to offer it to people then you run into regulation issues. Everybody is in favor of it, as long as it's not in their backyard. On the other hand, if you try to focus on the homeless themselves, then it's largely a lack of self-help issue that ended up spiraling out of control. It's very difficult to help them, because many of them have different issues. The lack of a home is (usually) just a symptom of another issue. This makes it difficult to scale any actual solution. Dealing with poverty is an interesting issue. When you look at developed countries, then you're almost always dealing with relative poverty. It is impossible to get rid of it, because relative poverty is simply the bottom X% of the population. The US (relative) poverty line is $12,760 a year for a single person. The average income in Poland is $16,052 (~$12,000 after taxes). Are the Polish poor? There's also absolute poverty. This is set at around $2.2 a day or roughly $500-600 a year. We have been quite successful at improving the conditions for a lot of people in countries with large amounts is abject poverty. China is the poster child of this. China went from 88% of the population in 1981 living in absolute poverty to 0.7% in 2015. One of the main ways this happens is through sweatshops. Contrary to popular belief, sweatshops tend to be better than alternatives for the locals. That's why they work in them. It's not easy, but they've certainly lifted countries out of poverty. All in all, I don't think the problems you mentioned are solvable by capitalism, because they're not really "solvable" by any economic system (other than abject poverty). These problems largely improve when we improve our economies. Capitalism seems to be the best at that.
- gotostatement 6y ago
  Universal healthcare is accomplished in many countries, so how does it not have a solution? Yes, it's a black hole for money - that's my entire point, it's not profitable, but it can be addressed with more money. No system is perfect, but just because we can't be perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't deliver more healthcare. In essence, I can answer all of your challenges with this: yes, every problem is multifaceted, but that doesn't change the fact that EVERY problem can be improved by giving people more money and services, and usually the problems can't really be improved without it. And instead of giving more and more profits to the people who happen to already own the capital to invest, we should be using those profits to take care of our people. If the economy improves but wages are stagnant (as they have been for years), then a rising tide doesn't lift all boats, because some people are hoarding all the...tide (bear with me). I come across this argument about relative poverty sometimes and I just don't get it. There's nothing relative about working 2 jobs, having less than 8 hours literally in the day left for sleep, having no leisure time, living paycheck to paycheck, not being able to afford nutritious food or having time to cook it, not having any power at work, having food or housing insecurity, not being able to afford to live in a good area, etc. I wouldn't say any one of these is the definition of poverty, per se, but my point is that these are objective factors of misery, it has nothing to do with percentile. Saying eliminating poverty is impossible because its defined as the bottom 10% is - sorry to be snarky - Ben Shapiro-level strawmanning and pedantry.

Mirioron 6y ago

>other problems, such as with providing universal healthcare, ending homelessness, poverty, etc, are inherently non-profitable These are also problems that have no real solution outside of a general economic improvement. Universal healthcare is a black hole for money. You can literally spend all of the money in the world on it and you'd still be lacking in funding. It's a problem space that expands the more we learn about it requiring even more funding to actually help people. Gene therapies are so expensive that if universal healthcare offered them the governments would go bankrupt. Yet the hope is that as we improve our understanding we can improve the price. Antibiotics cost next to nothing in developed countries. 200 years ago you could've been the richest person on Earth and you still couldn't get them. Homelessness is a multifaceted problem. If you look at it from the perspective of trying to build more homes to offer it to people then you run into regulation issues. Everybody is in favor of it, as long as it's not in their backyard. On the other hand, if you try to focus on the homeless themselves, then it's largely a lack of self-help issue that ended up spiraling out of control. It's very difficult to help them, because many of them have different issues. The lack of a home is (usually) just a symptom of another issue. This makes it difficult to scale any actual solution. Dealing with poverty is an interesting issue. When you look at developed countries, then you're almost always dealing with relative poverty. It is impossible to get rid of it, because relative poverty is simply the bottom X% of the population. The US (relative) poverty line is $12,760 a year for a single person. The average income in Poland is $16,052 (~$12,000 after taxes). Are the Polish poor? There's also absolute poverty. This is set at around $2.2 a day or roughly $500-600 a year. We have been quite successful at improving the conditions for a lot of people in countries with large amounts is abject poverty. China is the poster child of this. China went from 88% of the population in 1981 living in absolute poverty to 0.7% in 2015. One of the main ways this happens is through sweatshops. Contrary to popular belief, sweatshops tend to be better than alternatives for the locals. That's why they work in them. It's not easy, but they've certainly lifted countries out of poverty. All in all, I don't think the problems you mentioned are solvable by capitalism, because they're not really "solvable" by any economic system (other than abject poverty). These problems largely improve when we improve our economies. Capitalism seems to be the best at that.

gotostatement 6y ago
Universal healthcare is accomplished in many countries, so how does it not have a solution? Yes, it's a black hole for money - that's my entire point, it's not profitable, but it can be addressed with more money. No system is perfect, but just because we can't be perfect doesn't mean we shouldn't deliver more healthcare. In essence, I can answer all of your challenges with this: yes, every problem is multifaceted, but that doesn't change the fact that EVERY problem can be improved by giving people more money and services, and usually the problems can't really be improved without it. And instead of giving more and more profits to the people who happen to already own the capital to invest, we should be using those profits to take care of our people. If the economy improves but wages are stagnant (as they have been for years), then a rising tide doesn't lift all boats, because some people are hoarding all the...tide (bear with me). I come across this argument about relative poverty sometimes and I just don't get it. There's nothing relative about working 2 jobs, having less than 8 hours literally in the day left for sleep, having no leisure time, living paycheck to paycheck, not being able to afford nutritious food or having time to cook it, not having any power at work, having food or housing insecurity, not being able to afford to live in a good area, etc. I wouldn't say any one of these is the definition of poverty, per se, but my point is that these are objective factors of misery, it has nothing to do with percentile. Saying eliminating poverty is impossible because its defined as the bottom 10% is - sorry to be snarky - Ben Shapiro-level strawmanning and pedantry.