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> No. Our conversation is a good example of that. The default is to state your business, not your sexual identity or race. Is it? You started your conversation

> No. Our conversation is a good example of that. The default is to state your business, not your sexual identity or race. Is it? You started your conversation literally around identity, and claiming you chose to avoid people based on that identity. Regardless if they self-identify or not, you're the one that brought identity into this debate. The fact that you seem to choose to downplay sexual identity is rather funny, considering I'm willing to bet if you went out of your way to refer to a cisgender man or a woman as the opposite gender they would eventually get angry. So claiming it's not 'central' is bullshit. > I say, craving validation is the connecting factor. If you have different experiences with that, so it be. People want to be identified as who they are. Not sure how this is controversial. If you're talking to someone named John and you keep referring to him as Johnny when he says he doesn't want to be called Johnny, that's 'craving validation' by your argument. Remembering 'John wants to be called by John and not Johnny' is about as difficult as 'Remembering [Person] wants to be called by She and not He'. > But in online communities around open source software, there are always a few black sheep that turn really emotional if you accidentally don't "respect their identity", and this includes alot of otherwise innocent behavior. Yes, there are always a few assholes in open source development. This isn't exclusive to transgender people, I've met my fair share of cisgender people that turn emotional if you don't follow their rules. Does that mean I should start avoiding cisgender people all together?

blueflow 6y ago
You might come from a social environment where people are much more fragile than in my environment. I tried to outline a specific behaviour that predominantly comes from self-identifying transgender people. If you haven't experienced these behaviours, we won't find a common ground there. Yes, there are always some difficult people. There are red flags to watch out for, and "self-defining as trans" is one of them. Putting much emphasis on your sexual identity is also a red flag in general.
- fzeroracer 6y ago
  It's funny that you claim I come from a social environment where people are 'more fragile' when I consider it simply basic respect to call people what they want. It seems like you managed to completely ignore my John / Johnny example as well, so I think it's becoming clearer that you're not really here to debate in good faith. Also personally, one of the red flags I find in difficult people is those that choose to stereotype an entire group. Usually they'll end up causing further problems down the line by not wanting to work as a team or ostracizing said members they stereotype.
  - blueflow 6y ago
    Do you know why i ignored it? Like, when im with other adults, the tone is much harsher sometimes, especially when we are drunk. So you need to have the skin for that, which is generally a useful trait in life. So i assumed your argument featuring a fragile cis man was due to a lack of social experience. Did i stereotype an entire group? I explicitly stated that i have problems with a specific behaviour from a part of a group, and explicitly told that parts of the group don't exhibit this behaviour. You ignored that. I said that i was leaving communities due to this behaviour. I'm the one leaving, not the transgender people. I'm, at most, ostracizing myself. And then you come and go accuse me of arguing in bad faith. Seriously. You are just looking for something to get offended about.
    - fzeroracer 6y ago
      > Do you know why i ignored it? Like, when im with other adults, the tone is much harsher sometimes, especially when we are drunk. So you need to have the skin for that, which is generally a useful trait in life. So i assumed your argument featuring a fragile cis man was due to a lack of social experience. Generally speaking, 'having thick skin' doesn't give you carte blanche to be an asshole to someone else. If you're an asshole to a coworker and you tell them to get thicker skin, you're likely going to be fired at worst if not reprimanded. That has nothing to do with fragility, that has to do with people not wanting to associate with you. As an aside: Having 'thick skin' means effectively not standing up for yourself when someone's being a dick which is generally a not useful trait in life. There's a balancing act between being getting angry at the drop of a pin and letting someone abuse you. > Did i stereotype an entire group? I explicitly stated that i have problems with a specific behaviour from a part of a group, and explicitly told that parts of the group don't exhibit this behaviour. You ignored that. Yes you did. > I don't wish to work with self-identified transgender people due to this anymore. They take everything so personal even if its not about them. Is stereotyping. Replace 'transgender' with 'black' and you'd be racist instead of transphobic. > I said that i was leaving communities due to this behaviour. I'm the one leaving, not the transgender people. I'm, at most, ostracizing myself. Usually I find when people say this, they don't actually leave the community. They're usually chasing off other users, often causing other drama in their wake. > And then you come and go accuse me of arguing in bad faith. Seriously. You are just looking for something to get offended about. Because you are arguing in bad faith. The fact that you choose to think that I'm 'looking for something to get offended about' just further proves my point.

blueflow 6y ago

You might come from a social environment where people are much more fragile than in my environment. I tried to outline a specific behaviour that predominantly comes from self-identifying transgender people. If you haven't experienced these behaviours, we won't find a common ground there. Yes, there are always some difficult people. There are red flags to watch out for, and "self-defining as trans" is one of them. Putting much emphasis on your sexual identity is also a red flag in general.

fzeroracer 6y ago
It's funny that you claim I come from a social environment where people are 'more fragile' when I consider it simply basic respect to call people what they want. It seems like you managed to completely ignore my John / Johnny example as well, so I think it's becoming clearer that you're not really here to debate in good faith. Also personally, one of the red flags I find in difficult people is those that choose to stereotype an entire group. Usually they'll end up causing further problems down the line by not wanting to work as a team or ostracizing said members they stereotype.
- blueflow 6y ago
  Do you know why i ignored it? Like, when im with other adults, the tone is much harsher sometimes, especially when we are drunk. So you need to have the skin for that, which is generally a useful trait in life. So i assumed your argument featuring a fragile cis man was due to a lack of social experience. Did i stereotype an entire group? I explicitly stated that i have problems with a specific behaviour from a part of a group, and explicitly told that parts of the group don't exhibit this behaviour. You ignored that. I said that i was leaving communities due to this behaviour. I'm the one leaving, not the transgender people. I'm, at most, ostracizing myself. And then you come and go accuse me of arguing in bad faith. Seriously. You are just looking for something to get offended about.
  - fzeroracer 6y ago
    > Do you know why i ignored it? Like, when im with other adults, the tone is much harsher sometimes, especially when we are drunk. So you need to have the skin for that, which is generally a useful trait in life. So i assumed your argument featuring a fragile cis man was due to a lack of social experience. Generally speaking, 'having thick skin' doesn't give you carte blanche to be an asshole to someone else. If you're an asshole to a coworker and you tell them to get thicker skin, you're likely going to be fired at worst if not reprimanded. That has nothing to do with fragility, that has to do with people not wanting to associate with you. As an aside: Having 'thick skin' means effectively not standing up for yourself when someone's being a dick which is generally a not useful trait in life. There's a balancing act between being getting angry at the drop of a pin and letting someone abuse you. > Did i stereotype an entire group? I explicitly stated that i have problems with a specific behaviour from a part of a group, and explicitly told that parts of the group don't exhibit this behaviour. You ignored that. Yes you did. > I don't wish to work with self-identified transgender people due to this anymore. They take everything so personal even if its not about them. Is stereotyping. Replace 'transgender' with 'black' and you'd be racist instead of transphobic. > I said that i was leaving communities due to this behaviour. I'm the one leaving, not the transgender people. I'm, at most, ostracizing myself. Usually I find when people say this, they don't actually leave the community. They're usually chasing off other users, often causing other drama in their wake. > And then you come and go accuse me of arguing in bad faith. Seriously. You are just looking for something to get offended about. Because you are arguing in bad faith. The fact that you choose to think that I'm 'looking for something to get offended about' just further proves my point.