4 ms·

So, right now is a terrible time for this logic given we live in an oligarchy with very little representation, but if we lived in an actual functional governmen

So, right now is a terrible time for this logic given we live in an oligarchy with very little representation, but if we lived in an actual functional government, services like this seem like they should be socialized. I don't want 3 different sewage companies ripping up my block to put in 3 different sewage lines. Similarly, I don't want a bunch of different internet providers having to do that. Once again, this only makes sense in a functional government. Not in a lobbyist hacked representative democracy turned oligarchy.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago
Most of the policies like this are set at the state and local levels. You absolutely can make a difference at this level by showing up. Especially if you can show up with some like-minded people in the same jurisdiction, and keep after it until the change has actually happened and is too late for the incumbents to undo.
- seph-reed 6y ago
  While I really appreciate the democratic aspect of showing up at meetings, I would much prefer proper representation. Representation such that someone says: "Hey what about people who are too busy to show up to these meetings? How do we get their input?" At this point, the lobbyists have very, very, very obviously gotten root. The steps involved with reversing this (without beheadings) are unprecedented afaik.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    That's exactly how it works? You show up, make a bunch of noise about what you want and eventually everyone can vote on it. The value of representative democracy is that you don't need to take the time to go to every meeting.
    - 1_person 6y ago
      Yes, I find it very convenient for legislators to represent my interests for me by professing their platform to be whatever is electorally expedient at the moment while gerrymandering districts and rigging elections in a couple key counties then legislating whatever gets them paid the most with no regard for their professed platform or my interests whatsoever. It's great that I don't even have to be aware of how my rights are being gradually eroded and sold off to the highest bidder. It allows me to fully abdicate responsibility for the atrocities and enjoy my carefree lifestyle of mindless consumerism. Fuck me harder, daddy!
    - seph-reed 6y ago
      We don't have a "representative democracy," we have an oligarchy. Our representation was lobbied away, like, 2 decades ago. Now they're just mocking us. Go vote anyways.
      - mulmen 6y ago
        What was the turning point? Why vote if the system is an oligarchy?
        seph-reed 6y ago
        How about when we started a war with a country that hadn't attacked us so that some oil tycoons could line their pockets? Did anyone vote on that? Just sending innocent civilians to die so some rich fuck could get richer? How about "Corporations are people"? Was that for the good of the American public? What about this current administration? Pretty much everyone in power doesn't belong there and does more to serve those who pay them (through lobbying) than the public. Vote anyways because it's good for PR and slows down the spread of corruption.
mulmen 6y ago
Government dysfunction is a matter of perception. This defeatist attitude is toxic. Our government is functional. Your vote does count. You do have input, especially at a local level.
- 1_person 6y ago
  This is perhaps one of the most offensive things I have ever read. Please tell some felons who have been wrongly convicted or convicted of victimless "moral" crimes about how the vote they don't have counts. Preach to Syrian refugees about their defeatist attitude, perhaps. It's their fault for voting for the wrong warlord, I expect?
- seph-reed 6y ago
  DUDE. They got root. If this was a computer system, then they managed to leverage lobbying until they were able to move enough pieces to be able to turn money into real systemic changes, and at this point they've reached the top. They've also reached the bottom in the sense that if this was a pure democracy, they'd still get majority vote through manipulating non-experts. The government is a system, and you're a "hacker." Honestly, how much further could the wealthy escalate their privileges? P.S. Go vote anyways.
  - mulmen 6y ago
    We all have root, that's the point. Sure lobbyists have a lot of influence. That doesn't make the United States an oligarchy.

AnthonyMouse 6y ago

Most of the policies like this are set at the state and local levels. You absolutely can make a difference at this level by showing up. Especially if you can show up with some like-minded people in the same jurisdiction, and keep after it until the change has actually happened and is too late for the incumbents to undo.

seph-reed 6y ago
While I really appreciate the democratic aspect of showing up at meetings, I would much prefer proper representation. Representation such that someone says: "Hey what about people who are too busy to show up to these meetings? How do we get their input?" At this point, the lobbyists have very, very, very obviously gotten root. The steps involved with reversing this (without beheadings) are unprecedented afaik.
- mulmen 6y ago
  That's exactly how it works? You show up, make a bunch of noise about what you want and eventually everyone can vote on it. The value of representative democracy is that you don't need to take the time to go to every meeting.
  - 1_person 6y ago
    Yes, I find it very convenient for legislators to represent my interests for me by professing their platform to be whatever is electorally expedient at the moment while gerrymandering districts and rigging elections in a couple key counties then legislating whatever gets them paid the most with no regard for their professed platform or my interests whatsoever. It's great that I don't even have to be aware of how my rights are being gradually eroded and sold off to the highest bidder. It allows me to fully abdicate responsibility for the atrocities and enjoy my carefree lifestyle of mindless consumerism. Fuck me harder, daddy!
  - seph-reed 6y ago
    We don't have a "representative democracy," we have an oligarchy. Our representation was lobbied away, like, 2 decades ago. Now they're just mocking us. Go vote anyways.
    - mulmen 6y ago
      What was the turning point? Why vote if the system is an oligarchy?
      - seph-reed 6y ago
        How about when we started a war with a country that hadn't attacked us so that some oil tycoons could line their pockets? Did anyone vote on that? Just sending innocent civilians to die so some rich fuck could get richer? How about "Corporations are people"? Was that for the good of the American public? What about this current administration? Pretty much everyone in power doesn't belong there and does more to serve those who pay them (through lobbying) than the public. Vote anyways because it's good for PR and slows down the spread of corruption.

mulmen 6y ago

Government dysfunction is a matter of perception. This defeatist attitude is toxic. Our government is functional. Your vote does count. You do have input, especially at a local level.

1_person 6y ago
This is perhaps one of the most offensive things I have ever read. Please tell some felons who have been wrongly convicted or convicted of victimless "moral" crimes about how the vote they don't have counts. Preach to Syrian refugees about their defeatist attitude, perhaps. It's their fault for voting for the wrong warlord, I expect?
seph-reed 6y ago
DUDE. They got root. If this was a computer system, then they managed to leverage lobbying until they were able to move enough pieces to be able to turn money into real systemic changes, and at this point they've reached the top. They've also reached the bottom in the sense that if this was a pure democracy, they'd still get majority vote through manipulating non-experts. The government is a system, and you're a "hacker." Honestly, how much further could the wealthy escalate their privileges? P.S. Go vote anyways.
- mulmen 6y ago
  We all have root, that's the point. Sure lobbyists have a lot of influence. That doesn't make the United States an oligarchy.