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It's not just about phds. Undergraduate education is significantly compromised because universities literally focus on customer service metrics, and are directe

It's not just about phds. Undergraduate education is significantly compromised because universities literally focus on customer service metrics, and are directed by the business school. At prestigious institutions this is literally a revolving door with mckinsey which can be followed through key appointments but I was using the word to make a more abstract illusion.

mjburgess 6y ago
Are you sure its customer service metrics and not the oversupply of students? Are you sure it isnt that students who couldnt complete an entrance exam 30yrs ago are being given $50k - $100k loans to get a degree they derive no value from? The average IQ of an undergrad 30 years ago was over 120, now it is 105. University doesn't "educate" you. At best it trains you in a discipline that you have to, on arrival, have an aptitude for. The (pseudo-)educational experience isnt transformative, it doesn't take a person who cannot learn complex topics independently and turn them into a person who can. It facilitates. That means c. 10% of the current population of students are actually suitable for university. Everything else is a bubble created by "aspirational" parents demanding $100k loans for their children.
- alpineidyll3 6y ago
  If this is the case, (and I'm not disagreeing outright) I think the fault lies with primary Ed, and the oft true perception that education is unnecessary because the stamp of intelligence can be bought. Cough, kushner, cough.
- begemotz 6y ago
  you speak as if it has to be either or.. from the inside looking out, I can say its both. To deny that the modern (US) university is driven by customer satisfaction and B-school world views is hard to defend if you know how universities function. To say that the financial aid market and sheer number of mediocre Unis teaching mediocre students doesn't perpetuate the institution is also going to be hard to defend. But they are not independent and certainly not contradictory. If there was no demand, there would be no market.. and what the demand is for is not education but a diploma. And the larger markets insist of college degrees for the most mediocre of jobs, and have off-loaded training to be subsidized, ultimately by the students getting a degree (and then complain because they are not being 'taught' skills necessary for the workplace).

mjburgess 6y ago

Are you sure its customer service metrics and not the oversupply of students? Are you sure it isnt that students who couldnt complete an entrance exam 30yrs ago are being given $50k - $100k loans to get a degree they derive no value from? The average IQ of an undergrad 30 years ago was over 120, now it is 105. University doesn't "educate" you. At best it trains you in a discipline that you have to, on arrival, have an aptitude for. The (pseudo-)educational experience isnt transformative, it doesn't take a person who cannot learn complex topics independently and turn them into a person who can. It facilitates. That means c. 10% of the current population of students are actually suitable for university. Everything else is a bubble created by "aspirational" parents demanding $100k loans for their children.

alpineidyll3 6y ago
If this is the case, (and I'm not disagreeing outright) I think the fault lies with primary Ed, and the oft true perception that education is unnecessary because the stamp of intelligence can be bought. Cough, kushner, cough.
begemotz 6y ago
you speak as if it has to be either or.. from the inside looking out, I can say its both. To deny that the modern (US) university is driven by customer satisfaction and B-school world views is hard to defend if you know how universities function. To say that the financial aid market and sheer number of mediocre Unis teaching mediocre students doesn't perpetuate the institution is also going to be hard to defend. But they are not independent and certainly not contradictory. If there was no demand, there would be no market.. and what the demand is for is not education but a diploma. And the larger markets insist of college degrees for the most mediocre of jobs, and have off-loaded training to be subsidized, ultimately by the students getting a degree (and then complain because they are not being 'taught' skills necessary for the workplace).