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I wish anonymous metadata and source code was open! This kind of software has potential to positively impact society but not when it cannot be freely audited an

I wish anonymous metadata and source code was open! This kind of software has potential to positively impact society but not when it cannot be freely audited and debated by the public empowered to vote for changes to it. I suspect there is a storm brewing with proprietary government software. Social services like child endangerment checkups, child placements, etc. sentencing recommendations, as mentioned predictive policing, watchdog/oversight departments , and so much more! These tools can empower us or enslave us and a big step toward empowerment is the open source community to push for open source and open data for software augmented government functions!

burtonator 6y ago
I'm really torn on this issue because as a data-scientist I'm all in but knowing the potential for abuse here or just "damage" when a minority group is injured. They wouldn't have the financial resources to fight back. Further, we KNOW law enforcement uses these systems to gain access and abuse rights. K9s are a good example. The police can't search your car without a warrant but if a K9 'signals' then they can search all they want. None of the false positive hit rates of the K9s are auditable so if they're just using the K9 to search anyone's car then they've basically use a 'clever hans' to bypass the 4th amendment.
ISL 6y ago
It is very difficult to make policing metadata truly anonymous. Source code makes sense, for sure.
agilebyte 6y ago
If we had access to granular data like this, wouldn't it lead to further gentrification and a further rift within a society?
- rudolph9 6y ago
  How so? What is your though process on this?
  - agilebyte 6y ago
    Given a choice between two neighbourhoods, would I want to move to one that has grow ops or a high rate of social services checkups? Some of that data is already easily available and I know it is being used by real estate agents already. The people that can avoid these neighbourhoods will, which leaves only those that can't. Gentrification. The neighbourhood I grew up in was heavily mixed (along social strata) which prevented these problems from arising in the first place.
    - rudolph9 6y ago
      > The people that can avoid these neighbourhoods will, which leaves only those that can't. You’re describing people who are stuck in impoverished (correct me if I’m mistaken) where but gentrifications refer to the restoration and upgrading of deteriorated urban property by middle-class or affluent people, often resulting in displacement of lower-income people. Gentrification has a lot to do with location in proximity to a city center, transportation, waterfront, etc. Just because a neighborhood is safer doesn’t necessarily mean wealthy people will move there, drive up property values indirectly forcing out the poorer residents. Look at Japan, the country has a universally low crime rate and poor areas are still relatively cost effective for low income residents. https://www.quora.com/Which-part-of-Japan-is-viewed-as-the-poorest-and-most-backward-by-other-Japanese?share=1 https://www.quora.com/Which-part-of-Japan-is-viewed-as-the-p... I’m not saying this won’t accelerate gentrification of desirable areas currently full of crime in-turn currently avoided wealthier people. But a cost effective solution which results in a net decrease in crime (not a zero sum game where a neighborhood gentrifies and the crime just shifts elsewhere), would likely benefit mostly lower income individuals then most. Obviously solution nothing is universal beneficial and there is the obvious concern of humans progressing being enslave by black-box AI systems but it has potential to be very beneficial if rolled out in a publicly auditable way.

burtonator 6y ago

I'm really torn on this issue because as a data-scientist I'm all in but knowing the potential for abuse here or just "damage" when a minority group is injured. They wouldn't have the financial resources to fight back. Further, we KNOW law enforcement uses these systems to gain access and abuse rights. K9s are a good example. The police can't search your car without a warrant but if a K9 'signals' then they can search all they want. None of the false positive hit rates of the K9s are auditable so if they're just using the K9 to search anyone's car then they've basically use a 'clever hans' to bypass the 4th amendment.

ISL 6y ago

It is very difficult to make policing metadata truly anonymous. Source code makes sense, for sure.

agilebyte 6y ago

If we had access to granular data like this, wouldn't it lead to further gentrification and a further rift within a society?

rudolph9 6y ago
How so? What is your though process on this?
- agilebyte 6y ago
  Given a choice between two neighbourhoods, would I want to move to one that has grow ops or a high rate of social services checkups? Some of that data is already easily available and I know it is being used by real estate agents already. The people that can avoid these neighbourhoods will, which leaves only those that can't. Gentrification. The neighbourhood I grew up in was heavily mixed (along social strata) which prevented these problems from arising in the first place.
  - rudolph9 6y ago
    > The people that can avoid these neighbourhoods will, which leaves only those that can't. You’re describing people who are stuck in impoverished (correct me if I’m mistaken) where but gentrifications refer to the restoration and upgrading of deteriorated urban property by middle-class or affluent people, often resulting in displacement of lower-income people. Gentrification has a lot to do with location in proximity to a city center, transportation, waterfront, etc. Just because a neighborhood is safer doesn’t necessarily mean wealthy people will move there, drive up property values indirectly forcing out the poorer residents. Look at Japan, the country has a universally low crime rate and poor areas are still relatively cost effective for low income residents. https://www.quora.com/Which-part-of-Japan-is-viewed-as-the-poorest-and-most-backward-by-other-Japanese?share=1 https://www.quora.com/Which-part-of-Japan-is-viewed-as-the-p... I’m not saying this won’t accelerate gentrification of desirable areas currently full of crime in-turn currently avoided wealthier people. But a cost effective solution which results in a net decrease in crime (not a zero sum game where a neighborhood gentrifies and the crime just shifts elsewhere), would likely benefit mostly lower income individuals then most. Obviously solution nothing is universal beneficial and there is the obvious concern of humans progressing being enslave by black-box AI systems but it has potential to be very beneficial if rolled out in a publicly auditable way.