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Counter-Counterpoint: if Microsoft made updates painless, users would notice them less, and defer them less, and be more up to date/secure. Updates are highly

Counter-Counterpoint: if Microsoft made updates painless, users would notice them less, and defer them less, and be more up to date/secure. Updates are highly disruptive. An update happening at the wrong time forever taints a user's view of updates: an unexpected reboot and hour long install the night before a term paper is due, a reboot to fix a crashing program unexpectedly installs some lengthy update, update progress bars are bigger liars than politicians, an update fails so Windows has to un-apply the update which takes $ages for some reason the user doesn't care about. The way updates happen on Windows is anti-user so it's not surprising so many users go out of their way to avoid them.

gruez 6y ago
> Counter-Counterpoint: if Microsoft made updates painless, users would notice them less, and defer them less, and be more up to date/secure. But it is painless, at least for me. Just install it a few days after patch tuesday before you go to bed and you should be fine. Sure, you can probably make the experience even better (eg. hotpatching), but the current process doesn't seem hard or demanding.
- deadbunny 6y ago
  Windows 10 will literally auto reboot while you are playing game, ignore the fact it's a game and think of it as high resource usage. People probably don't care if their machine reboots in the middle of the night, they do care when it decides to reboot right in the middle of usage.
  - Tostino 6y ago
    Or a simulation/long running task you kick off knowing it'll take most of the night, then wake up to a rebooted computer. I don't even defer updates if I can help it, but have still been bitten by this multiple times.
  - gruez 6y ago
    >Windows 10 will literally auto reboot while you are playing game, ignore the fact it's a game and think of it as high resource usage. I feel like we're missing some context here. Is this happening the week that the patch was released? Or was the system unpatched for weeks/months, and the user clicked "delay" multiple times? >People probably don't care if their machine reboots in the middle of the night, they do care when it decides to reboot right in the middle of usage. The grandparent comment was complaining exactly about this.
    - kasabali 6y ago
      > I feel like we're missing some context here. Is this happening the week that the patch was released? Or was the system unpatched for weeks/months, and the user clicked "delay" multiple times? It doesn't matter. No means no.
  - binarycrusader 6y ago
    Not by design generally speaking; if this happens, it's a bug, and you should file one.
    - deadbunny 6y ago
      Eh, it was just one of the multitude of user hostile actions that drove me off Windows. Intentional or not, it isn't my problem any more.
- tech234a 6y ago
  Hotpatching actually used to exist in Windows versions prior to Windows 8, but it was removed because few updates were made to support it. In the 12 years of support for Windows Server 2003, only 10 updates were released that supported hotpatching. Additionally, malicious software has been reported to have taken advantage of the feature. [1] [1]: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3061998/group-uses-windows-hotpatching-method-for-malware.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3061998/group-uses-win...
- kasabali 6y ago
  Tell that to millions who were surprised to find their printers broken just this month. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23516897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23516897
TeMPOraL 6y ago
To extend the counter-counterpoint: there are at least two types of updates: feature updates, and security updates. I don't think people would mind the latter all that much, but they often mind the former. As long as they're not put on parallel tracks, many people will refrain from updates entirely.
- folmar 6y ago
  They are to some extent, but so many security updates are coming and breaking apart that it makes no difference.

gruez 6y ago

> Counter-Counterpoint: if Microsoft made updates painless, users would notice them less, and defer them less, and be more up to date/secure. But it is painless, at least for me. Just install it a few days after patch tuesday before you go to bed and you should be fine. Sure, you can probably make the experience even better (eg. hotpatching), but the current process doesn't seem hard or demanding.

deadbunny 6y ago
Windows 10 will literally auto reboot while you are playing game, ignore the fact it's a game and think of it as high resource usage. People probably don't care if their machine reboots in the middle of the night, they do care when it decides to reboot right in the middle of usage.
- Tostino 6y ago
  Or a simulation/long running task you kick off knowing it'll take most of the night, then wake up to a rebooted computer. I don't even defer updates if I can help it, but have still been bitten by this multiple times.
- gruez 6y ago
  >Windows 10 will literally auto reboot while you are playing game, ignore the fact it's a game and think of it as high resource usage. I feel like we're missing some context here. Is this happening the week that the patch was released? Or was the system unpatched for weeks/months, and the user clicked "delay" multiple times? >People probably don't care if their machine reboots in the middle of the night, they do care when it decides to reboot right in the middle of usage. The grandparent comment was complaining exactly about this.
  - kasabali 6y ago
    > I feel like we're missing some context here. Is this happening the week that the patch was released? Or was the system unpatched for weeks/months, and the user clicked "delay" multiple times? It doesn't matter. No means no.
- binarycrusader 6y ago
  Not by design generally speaking; if this happens, it's a bug, and you should file one.
  - deadbunny 6y ago
    Eh, it was just one of the multitude of user hostile actions that drove me off Windows. Intentional or not, it isn't my problem any more.
tech234a 6y ago
Hotpatching actually used to exist in Windows versions prior to Windows 8, but it was removed because few updates were made to support it. In the 12 years of support for Windows Server 2003, only 10 updates were released that supported hotpatching. Additionally, malicious software has been reported to have taken advantage of the feature. [1] [1]: https://www.computerworld.com/article/3061998/group-uses-windows-hotpatching-method-for-malware.html https://www.computerworld.com/article/3061998/group-uses-win...
kasabali 6y ago
Tell that to millions who were surprised to find their printers broken just this month. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23516897 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23516897

TeMPOraL 6y ago

To extend the counter-counterpoint: there are at least two types of updates: feature updates, and security updates. I don't think people would mind the latter all that much, but they often mind the former. As long as they're not put on parallel tracks, many people will refrain from updates entirely.

folmar 6y ago
They are to some extent, but so many security updates are coming and breaking apart that it makes no difference.