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Thanks for defining. I’m missing something: what is the purpose of level 3. Isn’t level 4 all you could ask for?

numpad0 6y ago
Automotive industry wanted a gradual transition from manually driven cars to fully robotic cars. That’s fine, but they didn’t ask for inputs from software engineers about how to do it. So they worded that that you may have either: 1) no wheels, or 2) wheels that may shear off, or 3) wheels that may shear off but continue to support weight for a while, or 4) wheels that don’t shear off under normal conditions, or 5) wheels that don’t shear off under any circumstances. Simple enough right?
csours 6y ago
If you're a consumer, you probably don't want level 3. If you're a company selling self driving cars, you probably don't want level 3. If you're a research organization developing self driving cars, you will find yourself stuck at level 3, because level 4 is really really hard. Going from level 3 to level 4 means getting rid of any problem that would keep you at level 3. Disclaimer: I work for GM, not on SDC, this is solely my opinion.
- mynameisvlad 6y ago
  As someone who owns a Tesla, I think a lot of people want level 3 even if they don't realize it. Obviously if level 4 was available, people would go for it, but perfect is the enemy of good, and even with Tesla's L2 technology, it makes driving significantly easier. Continuously being ready to take over control vs controlling is a huge leap already.
  - csours 6y ago
    I think a lot of people would use and enjoy level 3, but some people would have a real bad time.
    - mynameisvlad 6y ago
      Right, so why do you think consumers wouldn't want level 3 if you think a lot of people would use and enjoy it? I definitely agree it won't be perfect, some people would indeed have a real bad time, but that still doesn't mean an improvement over the current status quo wouldn't be a seller. Perfect is the enemy of good, after all. Current level 1 and 2 systems wouldn't have been nearly as popular as they are if consumers didn't want them. Honda wouldn't have made it standard on all their cars, etc.
wutbrodo 6y ago
The difference is simply non-realtime corner cases. Most of driving is relatively straightforward processing for the human brain. But every once in a while, something weird happens: humans controlling traffic in an unexpected way, something weird happens to the road and a new emergent order arises from communication with the driver, a cop comes to the window and tells you some detail about the way the road is closed. I don't drive much, but I still hit cases like this periodically, especially when driving through the canyons. From the user's perspective it's effectively the equivalent of taking transit, with very occasional non-realtime takeovers. By contrast, L4 can do all the things that don't require a human in the car at all, like cargo or getting to their next pickup.

Automotive industry wanted a gradual transition from manually driven cars to fully robotic cars. That’s fine, but they didn’t ask for inputs from software engineers about how to do it. So they worded that that you may have either: 1) no wheels, or 2) wheels that may shear off, or 3) wheels that may shear off but continue to support weight for a while, or 4) wheels that don’t shear off under normal conditions, or 5) wheels that don’t shear off under any circumstances. Simple enough right?

csours 6y ago

If you're a consumer, you probably don't want level 3. If you're a company selling self driving cars, you probably don't want level 3. If you're a research organization developing self driving cars, you will find yourself stuck at level 3, because level 4 is really really hard. Going from level 3 to level 4 means getting rid of any problem that would keep you at level 3. Disclaimer: I work for GM, not on SDC, this is solely my opinion.

mynameisvlad 6y ago
As someone who owns a Tesla, I think a lot of people want level 3 even if they don't realize it. Obviously if level 4 was available, people would go for it, but perfect is the enemy of good, and even with Tesla's L2 technology, it makes driving significantly easier. Continuously being ready to take over control vs controlling is a huge leap already.
- csours 6y ago
  I think a lot of people would use and enjoy level 3, but some people would have a real bad time.
  - mynameisvlad 6y ago
    Right, so why do you think consumers wouldn't want level 3 if you think a lot of people would use and enjoy it? I definitely agree it won't be perfect, some people would indeed have a real bad time, but that still doesn't mean an improvement over the current status quo wouldn't be a seller. Perfect is the enemy of good, after all. Current level 1 and 2 systems wouldn't have been nearly as popular as they are if consumers didn't want them. Honda wouldn't have made it standard on all their cars, etc.

wutbrodo 6y ago

The difference is simply non-realtime corner cases. Most of driving is relatively straightforward processing for the human brain. But every once in a while, something weird happens: humans controlling traffic in an unexpected way, something weird happens to the road and a new emergent order arises from communication with the driver, a cop comes to the window and tells you some detail about the way the road is closed. I don't drive much, but I still hit cases like this periodically, especially when driving through the canyons. From the user's perspective it's effectively the equivalent of taking transit, with very occasional non-realtime takeovers. By contrast, L4 can do all the things that don't require a human in the car at all, like cargo or getting to their next pickup.