4 ms·
Both of these statements can be true: 1) the vast majority of shootings by police are justified, and 2) there are way too many cases of excessive use of force b
by marcoperaza 6y ago
Both of these statements can be true: 1) the vast majority of shootings by police are justified, and 2) there are way too many cases of excessive use of force by police, including shootings.
You can look at the reports. They don't usually leave local news, if they even make it there, because there is nothing remarkable about them. People have done aggregations of the data. I'm not saying it's going to convince you if you're already convinced otherwise.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/10/24/on-duty-under-fire/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/investigative/2015/10/24/o...
"But only a small number of the shootings — roughly 5 percent — occurred under the kind of circumstances that raise doubt and draw public outcry, according to an analysis by The Washington Post. The vast majority of individuals shot and killed by police officers were, like Snyder, armed with guns and killed after attacking police officers or civilians or making other direct threats."
- jakelazaroff 6y agoFrankly, that’s incredibly difficult to believe. When the cameras are off, police lie about the circumstances to make their violence seem justified. (Or even when the cameras are on — for example, the NYC police union has opposed the firing of Eric Garner’s murderer.)
- gnusty_gnurc 6y agoThis is technically a conspiracy theory right?
- craftinator 6y agoMaybe not backed by evidence, but definitely a reasonable extrapolation. Basic logic and social analysis will inform you that the role a police officer has attracts two mentalities: those who very strongly want to uphold law and help people, and those that enjoy abusing power and controlling people. Obviously these lie along a spectrum, and there is some overlap. Anecdotally, I know many of the bullies from my high school ended up being police. They enjoyed the power and feeling of beating and subjugating their classmates, and they found a job that pays well and gives them fulfillment. Let me posit this: if you were that type of individual, what better job is there to have than being a cop? Also, if you had that job, would you incriminate yourself after abusing your power, or would you lie, knowing that police protect their own and are often given the benefit of the doubt? I think it's extremely naive to assume that the situation isn't exactly as I described above. The real question is what is the ratio of abusers and bullies to helpers and law upholders.
- DFHippie 6y agoAlso, the police omertà business means the law upholders knuckle under to the bullies or get driven out of the force.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y agoKind of like the Illuminati. Or Bill Clinton's criticizers - speak up and he orders a hit! /s
- craftinator 6y agoAh, never mind, don't bother responding to my comment above. I didn't realize that you are just trolling.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago> police omertà business IDK I consider blanket generalizations about policing in the US as the mafia or something to be trolling...
- craftinator 6y agoYou responded to a reasonable argument based on understandings of incentive with: > Kind of like the Illuminati. Or Bill Clinton's criticizers - speak up and he orders a hit! /s No argument, but references to the Illuminati and assassinations. Not a whole lot of credibility to stand on, and definitely no reasonable discussion.
- gnusty_gnurc 6y ago> I think it's extremely naive to assume that the situation isn't exactly as I described above. The real question is what is the ratio of abusers and bullies to helpers and law upholders. And ignoring all the unsubstantiated claims you're making - it's completely compatible and most likely that the ratio is overwhelmingly good cops with a few abusers, and generally if/when present, concentrated in specific localities. The generalization that cops are inherently predisposed to evil or something is bizarre, unhelpful and polarizing - not to mention inflammatory to all the cops that are in fact lawful and in many ways more honorable than most citizens in terms of sacrifice, risk, and social good.
- jakelazaroff 6y agoWould you say it’s a conspiracy theory that politicians lie? If not, why so for police?
- gnusty_gnurc 6y agoConspiracy theory: you claim they’re colluding together but you have no evidence of it. Yes this easily fits a lot of things said about politicians. They can be obviously corrupt/"bad" without collusion or being somehow inherently evil.
- jakelazaroff 6y ago> Conspiracy theory: you claim they’re colluding together but you have no evidence of it. The entire point of the article is to investigate why there's so much evidence of police colluding to hide misconduct.
- greedo 6y agoHell, when the cameras are on, they plant evidence and make threatening comments about killing African-Americans, and judges...