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I hadn't heard of Bain Capital previously, but this article certainly doesn't paint them in a good light: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/gr

I hadn't heard of Bain Capital previously, but this article certainly doesn't paint them in a good light: https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/greed-and-debt-the-true-story-of-mitt-romney-and-bain-capital-183291/ https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/greed-an...

etimberg 6y ago
Only thing I ever remembered was that they were founded by Mitt Romney which immediately reminds me of the "Corporations are people" quote.
- sushshshsh 6y ago
  Corporations definitely are people, just ones that have a legal duty and financial incentive to act extremely selfishly and deceptively.
  - tomhoward 6y ago
    That's a caricature. Company directors have a legal duty to act in the interests of the company (as distinct from shareholders), but that doesn't mean they have to "act extremely selfishly and deceptively", any more than individuals do or should. People and companies need to balance their individual short term self-interest with their reputation and long-term interest. Like individuals, some companies can act like assholes, but when the system works well, people will stop associating with those ones. Of course, cronyism, monopoly effects and other issues mean the system doesn't always work well, but that's a somewhat separate matter.
    - sushshshsh 6y ago
      Nice so I'm being downvoted by anti corporate and pro corporate people, good to know. You compared the level of selfishness of corporations to individuals. I wonder if other people here would agree with that. My original intent was to confirm that corporations are indeed made up of people, who have motivations. Most people here would deny that corporations should be considered people.
      - tomhoward 6y ago
        > Most people here would deny that corporations should be considered people. Most people understand the legal basis for that when it's explained. And most people understand that corporations are run by people and are built to benefit (some) people.
rapsey 6y ago
Yeah Virgin is going to be hollowed out and sold for scrap.
- andrewwharton 6y ago
  Yep, seems like the big expectation here is to retain jobs and keep a competitive market in Australian domestic travel. Doesn’t seem likely anymore, which is a shame, because I always liked flying Virgin over the cattle-mustering experience that was flying Jetstar.
- tomhoward 6y ago
  There's not much more it can be hollowed out. If it's not to continue as an operating airline, the only assets to be sold for "scrap" are the aircraft (they own about half their fleet), and there's not much demand for them right now, or for the foreseeable future. But its brand, network and operating infrastructure have substantial value, so they'll get a much better return if they can get it operational and profitable again.
  - 542458 6y ago
    They can’t sell the airplanes for scrap, because they don’t own them - Virgin Australia leases its planes.
    - tomhoward 6y ago
      They own about half of them according to the Forbes article below, including four of the five 777s they operate. But even if you're right it only enhances my point; there's little "scrap" value in VA; it's either an operating airline or nothing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton1/2020/04/25/is-virgin-australia-greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts-perth-airport-seizes-planes-as-assets-dwindle/#1600884d73df https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton1/2020/04/25/is-virgi...
      - aryonoco 6y ago
        The four they own, we're fitted with small cargo doors, as opposed to standard ones, to save pennies. Now, in a world of Dreamliners and A350s, The major life of a second hand 77W is as a freighter, but no one wants these birds cause they are not suitable for freight operations. So yes they own them, but no one is going to buy them. John Borghetti and his team made a lot of stupid decisions during their decade at the helm. This really was the cherry on the top.
drocer88 6y ago
This is a straight up political hit piece published in August 2012 a few months before the Presidential elections when Romney was a major party nominee. "And the drama of this rhetorical high-wire act was ratcheted up even further when Romney chose his running mate, Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin – like himself, a self-righteously anal, thin-lipped, Whitest Kids U Know penny pincher who’d be honored to tell Oliver Twist there’s no more soup left. By selecting Ryan, Romney, the hard-charging, chameleonic champion of a disgraced-yet-defiant Wall Street, officially succeeded in moving the battle lines in the 2012 presidential race." The rhetoric and the journalism are hard to separate in this article.

etimberg 6y ago

Only thing I ever remembered was that they were founded by Mitt Romney which immediately reminds me of the "Corporations are people" quote.

sushshshsh 6y ago
Corporations definitely are people, just ones that have a legal duty and financial incentive to act extremely selfishly and deceptively.
- tomhoward 6y ago
  That's a caricature. Company directors have a legal duty to act in the interests of the company (as distinct from shareholders), but that doesn't mean they have to "act extremely selfishly and deceptively", any more than individuals do or should. People and companies need to balance their individual short term self-interest with their reputation and long-term interest. Like individuals, some companies can act like assholes, but when the system works well, people will stop associating with those ones. Of course, cronyism, monopoly effects and other issues mean the system doesn't always work well, but that's a somewhat separate matter.
  - sushshshsh 6y ago
    Nice so I'm being downvoted by anti corporate and pro corporate people, good to know. You compared the level of selfishness of corporations to individuals. I wonder if other people here would agree with that. My original intent was to confirm that corporations are indeed made up of people, who have motivations. Most people here would deny that corporations should be considered people.
    - tomhoward 6y ago
      > Most people here would deny that corporations should be considered people. Most people understand the legal basis for that when it's explained. And most people understand that corporations are run by people and are built to benefit (some) people.

rapsey 6y ago

Yeah Virgin is going to be hollowed out and sold for scrap.

andrewwharton 6y ago
Yep, seems like the big expectation here is to retain jobs and keep a competitive market in Australian domestic travel. Doesn’t seem likely anymore, which is a shame, because I always liked flying Virgin over the cattle-mustering experience that was flying Jetstar.
tomhoward 6y ago
There's not much more it can be hollowed out. If it's not to continue as an operating airline, the only assets to be sold for "scrap" are the aircraft (they own about half their fleet), and there's not much demand for them right now, or for the foreseeable future. But its brand, network and operating infrastructure have substantial value, so they'll get a much better return if they can get it operational and profitable again.
- 542458 6y ago
  They can’t sell the airplanes for scrap, because they don’t own them - Virgin Australia leases its planes.
  - tomhoward 6y ago
    They own about half of them according to the Forbes article below, including four of the five 777s they operate. But even if you're right it only enhances my point; there's little "scrap" value in VA; it's either an operating airline or nothing. https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton1/2020/04/25/is-virgin-australia-greater-than-the-sum-of-its-parts-perth-airport-seizes-planes-as-assets-dwindle/#1600884d73df https://www.forbes.com/sites/willhorton1/2020/04/25/is-virgi...
    - aryonoco 6y ago
      The four they own, we're fitted with small cargo doors, as opposed to standard ones, to save pennies. Now, in a world of Dreamliners and A350s, The major life of a second hand 77W is as a freighter, but no one wants these birds cause they are not suitable for freight operations. So yes they own them, but no one is going to buy them. John Borghetti and his team made a lot of stupid decisions during their decade at the helm. This really was the cherry on the top.

drocer88 6y ago

This is a straight up political hit piece published in August 2012 a few months before the Presidential elections when Romney was a major party nominee. "And the drama of this rhetorical high-wire act was ratcheted up even further when Romney chose his running mate, Rep. Paul Ryan of Wisconsin – like himself, a self-righteously anal, thin-lipped, Whitest Kids U Know penny pincher who’d be honored to tell Oliver Twist there’s no more soup left. By selecting Ryan, Romney, the hard-charging, chameleonic champion of a disgraced-yet-defiant Wall Street, officially succeeded in moving the battle lines in the 2012 presidential race." The rhetoric and the journalism are hard to separate in this article.