5 ms·
> The problem is that the behavior of your physics simulation depends on the delta time you pass in. The effect could be subtle as your game having a slightly d
by donatj 6y ago
> The problem is that the behavior of your physics simulation depends on the delta time you pass in. The effect could be subtle as your game having a slightly different “feel” depending on framerate
Is THIS why the physics in GTA San Andreas felt different on each console, and WAY different on PC? I have always suspected something like this but never knew for certain.
- fxtentacle 6y agoMost likely not. To make cross platform multiplayer possible, they practically have to enforce the same physics timesteps on all platforms. What most people perceive as a different feel is the input to display latency. On a TV with a controller that can easily be 4x higher than with a mouse on a PC screen. In the early days, Microsoft did a famous study of how strongly input latency affects the way how people use office software. If I recall correction, 50ms in additional latency would lead to significantly less exploratory behavior. And I think we all know that intuitively from the web. When a bloated newspaper site needs 5 seconds to load, you start to consciously consider if you really want to click that link, as opposed to just checking out everything slightly related on Wikipedia.
- aasasd 6y ago> Microsoft did a famous study of how strongly input latency affects the way how people use office software Would be quite interesting to look at that, if anyone has a link.
- jeffreygoesto 6y agoSure, duckduckgo.com for example has ;-) But in that paper [0] they talk about 500ms, not 50. The rest of the keywords sound so similar and it is the only match, so I think I got the right one. [0] https://idl.cs.washington.edu/files/2014-Latency-InfoVis.pdf https://idl.cs.washington.edu/files/2014-Latency-InfoVis.pdf
- aasasd 6y agoIndeed, sounds similar, though 2014 isn't quite ‘early years’ in my book, and MS doesn't seem to be involved here. On my feeble attempts at searching, the results were instead filled with laments about high values of latency on touchscreens and modern PCs.
- stefs 6y agodid you just tell him to let me duckduckgo that for you?
- fxtentacle 6y agoThat's not the study that I was referring to, but I cannot find the original one, either. If my memory serves me correctly, they compared PS2 with USB and they showed white squares on a CRT screen, so I believe it was from way before 2014.
- WillKirkby 6y agoGTA San Andreas (2004) did not have cross-platform multiplayer, so OP's assessment may be accurate.
- rypskar 6y ago2004 is a long time ago. I don't remember threading discussed any place when I started learning game development on a hobby and university level at that time. Probably because multiple cores wasn't a thing, so threading mostly would add complexity and cost performance. Core 2 was released in 2006 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_2 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_2 IIRC all places I did learn from did tell to throw everything into the game loop and remember to use delta since last frame in all calculations
- fxtentacle 6y agoYou are correct. I didn't consider that it was such an old game.
- deleted 6y ago[deleted]
- kroltan 6y agoIn current times with digital drivers, enormous TVs, triple-buffering, and wireless controllers, I very much agree. Would you know what contributed to the ItD latency discrepancy back in 2004? I would imagine a CRT TV vs a monitor to have much more similar latency, as well as a wired gamepad versus a wired KB+M. But I'm far from a specialist in this kind of thing.
- sdflhasjd 6y agoPossibly. In the game Halo 2, there was an exploitable physics glitch called "superbouncing" that allowed the player to jump very high. The effectiveness of this exploit differed on PAL (25fps) and NTSC (30fps) systems, with the exploit being easier to perform on the former. When Microsoft ported the game to the Xbox One, they raised the framerate to 60fps, this made it even harder and less effective to perform on remastered versions of the game.
- donatj 6y agoI remember this very fondly. I actually spent a long time trying to perform the superbouces as a teen, I pulled it off maybe twice. I was on NTSC and did not know there was a difference.
- dezgeg 6y agoYes, 3d era GTAs all have physics tied to the frame rate. The default setting on PC is to lock the frame rate to 30 or 25 fps (depends on which game) and you get problems if you disable that. This video shows some examples: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0LwTzxhgyM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0LwTzxhgyM