4 ms·

I'm not American, I'm not in Facebook either. I've read TFA and still don't have a clue what is Facebook criticized for. What's that hate speech and who's doing

by narag 6y ago

I'm not American, I'm not in Facebook either. I've read TFA and still don't have a clue what is Facebook criticized for. What's that hate speech and who's doing it?

Consultant32452 6y ago
The triggering event, as I understand it, is they did not censor the President of the United States who said something to the effect of riots lead to death. There's two ways to interpret this. One way is that eventually people will get hurt in some way if riots continue. Another way to interpret it was as a death threat to protesters. FB's position was that even if it was a threat, that the protesters needed to know that the President was going to send in the military to come kill them. So they did not censor or otherwise flag the post. This is perceived as FB promoting violence.
- hedora 6y ago
  Trump did more than you suggest. He used well understood language (“when the looting starts the shooting starts” is a famous quote from a white supremacist) to encourage his supporters to murder/lynch blacks. His campaign eventually started using Nazi imagery suggesting various opposition groups and protestors should be sent to concentration camps. Facebook pulled the ad. Around the same time, he used Twitter to (successfully, apparently) incite lynchings. Pulling a few Trump campaign ads was too little too late, and now people are boycotting Facebook. Here is a link to a story about the ad. Don’t take my word for it: https://boingboing.net/2020/06/18/trump-ad-uses-nazi-symbol-to-a.html https://boingboing.net/2020/06/18/trump-ad-uses-nazi-symbol-...
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    I think you're giving Trump too much credit. I find it difficult to believe Trump is highly educated about anything, much less esoteric quotes and symbols used by dead racist people.
    - solidasparagus 6y ago
      He just parrots what he sees/hears and he spends a lot of time looking at far right content.
      - Consultant32452 6y ago
        Can you name a place on the internet that regularly uses a red triangle as a racist symbol that Trump might have parroted this from?
        solidasparagus 6y ago
        Well the most racist stuff I've seen from him have been retweets so that would be my guess. Not sure how well twitter censors out that particular symbol.
        hedora 6y ago
        Hitler didn’t have much of a web presence, and I guess whatever’s left of the Nazi party hasn’t set one up. However, people have scanned some of the nazi propaganda: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badg... Also, at least when I was a kid, public grade schools covered WWII, and taught us about the triangles. Here’s a story from the history channel: https://www.history.com/news/pink-triangle-nazi-concentration-camps https://www.history.com/news/pink-triangle-nazi-concentratio... Red was reserved for political prisoners, and the LGBT movement co-opted the pink triangle. Good for them. Have you seriously not heard of any of this? Are you not from the US, or have holocaust deniers been tampering with school curricula?
        Consultant32452 6y ago
        I'm from the US. We surely covered WWII. I don't recall triangles at all. That doesn't mean it wasn't covered, I do remember the star of David looking badges to mark Jews, which is technically two triangles. I could be wrong, but Trump doesn't strike me as the kind of person watching a lot of the history channel. Or reading history books. Or reading anything at all really. I feel like I'm being asked to believe that the guy who spent two years bragging about how great black people were doing economically, bragging about funding HBCUs more than any other administration, creating opportunity zones, and implementing criminal justice reform is a secret Nazi. Sure, he's loudly doing all these tangible good things for black people and won't shut up about it, but he's quietly letting the Nazis know he's really one of them.
  - HunOL 6y ago
    > Trump did more than you suggest. He used well understood language (“when the looting starts the shooting starts” is a famous quote from a white supremacist) to encourage his supporters to murder/lynch blacks. Yet somehow it's hard to find this quote in Google if you select range before the events.
    - pdkl95 6y ago
      Google returns lots of results from a variety of sources for that quote: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22when+the+looting+starts%2C+the+shooting+starts%22&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2019&tbm= https://www.google.com/search?q=%22when+the+looting+starts%2... As expected, most of the results appear to be about the original use of the phrase in 1967 by the racist police chief of Miami Walter Headley.
      - HunOL 6y ago
        That's why I told to select date range before, like 2010-2019.
        pdkl95 6y ago
        My link did include a date range: &tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2019 # urldecoded: tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:,cd_max:12/31/2019 While I didn't bother specifying cd_min, many results are within your range. From the first page of results from my link above: (2018) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/08/07/how-three-violent-days-gripped-a-black-miami-neighborhood-as-nixon-was-nominated-in-1968/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/08/07... (2018) https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article1981602.html https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article1981602.htm... (2014) https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/156908 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/156908
- narag 6y ago
  Thank you for the clarification. Now I remember reading something about an "antifa" flag, that seemed unconclusive... please, remember I'm a foreigner so my judgement may lack some insights you have. Actually all this seems absurd. Trump is a politician, actually a public officer, so censoring his speech is a alien concept to me. In my country certain politicians IMHO deserve jail for the outrageous nonsense they say everyday, promoting hate and justifying violence. But nobody ask newspapers or tv to stop giving them interviews or air time. In a sense Facebook or Twitter are a kind of media, so even if the messages are disgusting, they're still relevant and the public should see them... and act accordingly when the time to vote comes. It's other politicians who should criticize that speech and put a moderate counterpoint against it. Acting against the messenger seems misguided. Am I missing something?
  - edoceo 6y ago
    You stated "all this seems absurd". An accurate description of American politics. I don't think you're missing anything.
  - joshribakoff 6y ago
    He’s posting factual inaccuracies about mail in ballots. Twitter appended the fact check information, so people could pursue their right to vote. Facebook did nothing This isn’t due to one single event, it’s a pattern.
  - DenisM 6y ago
    > Am I missing something? Yes - it's the election year. Trump is an alien element to the American establishment (republican and democrat alike), they put tons of work into preventing his election, even more work to obstruct his presidency, and now pulled out all the stops to derail his re-election.
  - AgentME 6y ago
    >Now I remember reading something about an "antifa" flag, that seemed unconclusive... You're probably thinking of this case recently where Trump ran ads on Facebook which called out antifa and used the same symbol for them that the Nazis used for leftist political prisoners sent to concentration camps. The ads even had other Nazi dogwhistles included too. Facebook took down those ads. https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/06/trump-upside-down-triangle-antifa/ https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/06/trump-ups... I find it outright amazing how much charity people around HN are still extending Trump.
- joshribakoff 6y ago
  He also said he asked to slow coronavirus testing down. When his staff said we were misinterpreting him, he corrected his staff and said he said what he meant. He also used racial slurs to describe coronavirus. How many gaffes before we stop presuming good intent?
  - Consultant32452 6y ago
    Facebook presumed bad intent. They presumed the president literally threatened to murder protesters.
  - tomp 6y ago
    > He also used racial slurs to describe coronavirus. Source? I follow online controversies quite closely and haven’t seen this one...
    - nl 6y ago
      https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/24/kellyanne-conway-trump-kung-flu-coronavirus-337682 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/24/kellyanne-conway-tr...
      - tomp 6y ago
        To save everyone a click: the term is “kung flu”. Slur maybe, racist definitely not (China is a country, not a race).
        nl 6y ago
        A slur against an ethnicity is generally accepted as racist.
        Consultant32452 6y ago
        Trump is racist no matter what he does. He says neo-nazis and white supremacists should be condemned totally, they claim he said nazis are fine people. NYT, WaPo, etc. call it the Chinese corona virus? No problem. Trump calls it the Chinese corona virus? Racist. So fuck it, it's the kung flu. I think it's a gross thing to say and don't choose that language myself, but fuck everyone's faux offense. Also, people generally have a POSITIVE view of Kung Fu. Positive associations are not slurs. China is not an ethnicity. Good for him going scorched Earth.
gedy 6y ago
It's an election year in the US and mud slinging time.
- Tempest1981 6y ago
  Mud slinging is usually at the other candidate, not entire races.

by narag 6y ago

I'm not American, I'm not in Facebook either. I've read TFA and still don't have a clue what is Facebook criticized for. What's that hate speech and who's doing it?

Consultant32452 6y ago

The triggering event, as I understand it, is they did not censor the President of the United States who said something to the effect of riots lead to death. There's two ways to interpret this. One way is that eventually people will get hurt in some way if riots continue. Another way to interpret it was as a death threat to protesters. FB's position was that even if it was a threat, that the protesters needed to know that the President was going to send in the military to come kill them. So they did not censor or otherwise flag the post. This is perceived as FB promoting violence.

hedora 6y ago
Trump did more than you suggest. He used well understood language (“when the looting starts the shooting starts” is a famous quote from a white supremacist) to encourage his supporters to murder/lynch blacks. His campaign eventually started using Nazi imagery suggesting various opposition groups and protestors should be sent to concentration camps. Facebook pulled the ad. Around the same time, he used Twitter to (successfully, apparently) incite lynchings. Pulling a few Trump campaign ads was too little too late, and now people are boycotting Facebook. Here is a link to a story about the ad. Don’t take my word for it: https://boingboing.net/2020/06/18/trump-ad-uses-nazi-symbol-to-a.html https://boingboing.net/2020/06/18/trump-ad-uses-nazi-symbol-...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  I think you're giving Trump too much credit. I find it difficult to believe Trump is highly educated about anything, much less esoteric quotes and symbols used by dead racist people.
  - solidasparagus 6y ago
    He just parrots what he sees/hears and he spends a lot of time looking at far right content.
    - Consultant32452 6y ago
      Can you name a place on the internet that regularly uses a red triangle as a racist symbol that Trump might have parroted this from?
      - solidasparagus 6y ago
        Well the most racist stuff I've seen from him have been retweets so that would be my guess. Not sure how well twitter censors out that particular symbol.
      - hedora 6y ago
        Hitler didn’t have much of a web presence, and I guess whatever’s left of the Nazi party hasn’t set one up. However, people have scanned some of the nazi propaganda: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badge https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_concentration_camp_badg... Also, at least when I was a kid, public grade schools covered WWII, and taught us about the triangles. Here’s a story from the history channel: https://www.history.com/news/pink-triangle-nazi-concentration-camps https://www.history.com/news/pink-triangle-nazi-concentratio... Red was reserved for political prisoners, and the LGBT movement co-opted the pink triangle. Good for them. Have you seriously not heard of any of this? Are you not from the US, or have holocaust deniers been tampering with school curricula?
        Consultant32452 6y ago
        I'm from the US. We surely covered WWII. I don't recall triangles at all. That doesn't mean it wasn't covered, I do remember the star of David looking badges to mark Jews, which is technically two triangles. I could be wrong, but Trump doesn't strike me as the kind of person watching a lot of the history channel. Or reading history books. Or reading anything at all really. I feel like I'm being asked to believe that the guy who spent two years bragging about how great black people were doing economically, bragging about funding HBCUs more than any other administration, creating opportunity zones, and implementing criminal justice reform is a secret Nazi. Sure, he's loudly doing all these tangible good things for black people and won't shut up about it, but he's quietly letting the Nazis know he's really one of them.
- HunOL 6y ago
  > Trump did more than you suggest. He used well understood language (“when the looting starts the shooting starts” is a famous quote from a white supremacist) to encourage his supporters to murder/lynch blacks. Yet somehow it's hard to find this quote in Google if you select range before the events.
  - pdkl95 6y ago
    Google returns lots of results from a variety of sources for that quote: https://www.google.com/search?q=%22when+the+looting+starts%2C+the+shooting+starts%22&source=lnt&tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2019&tbm= https://www.google.com/search?q=%22when+the+looting+starts%2... As expected, most of the results appear to be about the original use of the phrase in 1967 by the racist police chief of Miami Walter Headley.
    - HunOL 6y ago
      That's why I told to select date range before, like 2010-2019.
      - pdkl95 6y ago
        My link did include a date range: &tbs=cdr%3A1%2Ccd_min%3A%2Ccd_max%3A12%2F31%2F2019 # urldecoded: tbs=cdr:1,cd_min:,cd_max:12/31/2019 While I didn't bother specifying cd_min, many results are within your range. From the first page of results from my link above: (2018) https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/08/07/how-three-violent-days-gripped-a-black-miami-neighborhood-as-nixon-was-nominated-in-1968/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/retropolis/wp/2018/08/07... (2018) https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article1981602.html https://www.miamiherald.com/opinion/op-ed/article1981602.htm... (2014) https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/156908 https://historynewsnetwork.org/article/156908
narag 6y ago
Thank you for the clarification. Now I remember reading something about an "antifa" flag, that seemed unconclusive... please, remember I'm a foreigner so my judgement may lack some insights you have. Actually all this seems absurd. Trump is a politician, actually a public officer, so censoring his speech is a alien concept to me. In my country certain politicians IMHO deserve jail for the outrageous nonsense they say everyday, promoting hate and justifying violence. But nobody ask newspapers or tv to stop giving them interviews or air time. In a sense Facebook or Twitter are a kind of media, so even if the messages are disgusting, they're still relevant and the public should see them... and act accordingly when the time to vote comes. It's other politicians who should criticize that speech and put a moderate counterpoint against it. Acting against the messenger seems misguided. Am I missing something?
- edoceo 6y ago
  You stated "all this seems absurd". An accurate description of American politics. I don't think you're missing anything.
- joshribakoff 6y ago
  He’s posting factual inaccuracies about mail in ballots. Twitter appended the fact check information, so people could pursue their right to vote. Facebook did nothing This isn’t due to one single event, it’s a pattern.
- DenisM 6y ago
  > Am I missing something? Yes - it's the election year. Trump is an alien element to the American establishment (republican and democrat alike), they put tons of work into preventing his election, even more work to obstruct his presidency, and now pulled out all the stops to derail his re-election.
- AgentME 6y ago
  >Now I remember reading something about an "antifa" flag, that seemed unconclusive... You're probably thinking of this case recently where Trump ran ads on Facebook which called out antifa and used the same symbol for them that the Nazis used for leftist political prisoners sent to concentration camps. The ads even had other Nazi dogwhistles included too. Facebook took down those ads. https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/06/trump-upside-down-triangle-antifa/ https://www.motherjones.com/2020-elections/2020/06/trump-ups... I find it outright amazing how much charity people around HN are still extending Trump.
joshribakoff 6y ago
He also said he asked to slow coronavirus testing down. When his staff said we were misinterpreting him, he corrected his staff and said he said what he meant. He also used racial slurs to describe coronavirus. How many gaffes before we stop presuming good intent?
- Consultant32452 6y ago
  Facebook presumed bad intent. They presumed the president literally threatened to murder protesters.
- tomp 6y ago
  > He also used racial slurs to describe coronavirus. Source? I follow online controversies quite closely and haven’t seen this one...
  - nl 6y ago
    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/24/kellyanne-conway-trump-kung-flu-coronavirus-337682 https://www.politico.com/news/2020/06/24/kellyanne-conway-tr...
    - tomp 6y ago
      To save everyone a click: the term is “kung flu”. Slur maybe, racist definitely not (China is a country, not a race).
      - nl 6y ago
        A slur against an ethnicity is generally accepted as racist.
        Consultant32452 6y ago
        Trump is racist no matter what he does. He says neo-nazis and white supremacists should be condemned totally, they claim he said nazis are fine people. NYT, WaPo, etc. call it the Chinese corona virus? No problem. Trump calls it the Chinese corona virus? Racist. So fuck it, it's the kung flu. I think it's a gross thing to say and don't choose that language myself, but fuck everyone's faux offense. Also, people generally have a POSITIVE view of Kung Fu. Positive associations are not slurs. China is not an ethnicity. Good for him going scorched Earth.

gedy 6y ago

It's an election year in the US and mud slinging time.

Tempest1981 6y ago
Mud slinging is usually at the other candidate, not entire races.