5 ms·

Is there any kind of indicator in the cockpit to remind the pilot? A light? A voice (like the stall voice), that says, "Hey doofus, you're descending and close

Is there any kind of indicator in the cockpit to remind the pilot? A light? A voice (like the stall voice), that says, "Hey doofus, you're descending and close to landing, so LOWER THE GEAR!"

colejohnson66 6y ago
I’m not a pilot, but I think there’s a “too low” warning
- bdamm 6y ago
  Most airplanes have a "too slow" warning as well, e.g. a speed at which the gear ought to be down because there isn't any other reason to be going so slow except to be landing. The speed also factors into gear retraction, e.g. you are not going fast enough to fly, so gear retraction will not be actuated even if commanded.
t0mas88 6y ago
There is. Some planes beep, others literally play a warning "too low, gear, too low, gear" in the cockpit and headsets. But gear up landings don't happen in a normal stable approach in nice weather. Gear up landings happen when something else is going on taking all the pilots' attention. Like in this incident they were too high, too fast and descending too quickly. That causes a lot of other warnings and distractions, so they completely didn't hear the gear warning.
dbcurtis 6y ago
A friend of mine that years ago (pre-F-18) was a carrier-rated Navy fighter pilot had, after he got out, flown a Mooney for a couple decades. His wife also a pilot. He always went down the checklist verbally, every time. One time on approach he said: “Gear down. Three in the green.” meaning gear down and locked indicator on all three wheels. His wife said: “You do not have three in the green.” The human brain is a funny thing. It will convince you of things that are not there just out of habit.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  Yeah - checklists can become almost a chant, more music than informational. "Pointing and calling" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling) appears to address this.
- henvic 6y ago
  When I cross a road I usually quickly look two or three times to check traffic, even when it's one-way. This way, I make sure that even if I'm in a hurry, I'll likely take a look at least once at each side.
schoen 6y ago
In this case, this video linked elsewhere in this thread described this happening here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO5rXxJRmf4&t=5m48s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO5rXxJRmf4&t=5m48s (I think this is meant to be an accurate simulation of the same type of aircraft under the same conditions.) The current top comment in this thread also quotes the investigator report for this crash as saying > According to the FDR and CVR recordings several warnings and alerts such as over-speed, landing gear not down and ground proximity alerts were disregarded. So, yep. Although in the simulation, at least, this particular one is not a voice alert but is an annoying bell (with details of the reasons for the alert available elsewhere in the cockpit).
AWildC182 6y ago
You're not wrong at all, and there is. It's just surprisingly easy to filter it out. If something new or non-standard is happening (ATC gave you an unusual approach, there's a traffic conflict, etc) you WILL start filtering out the less important information such as the screech of a gear horn or some other in-your-face indicator right through touchdown. The thing about flying an aircraft is while it's 90% boring monotony, takeoff, approach and landing are all extremely time sensitive operations. It's easy to become cognitively saturated or to "get behind the aircraft". You can only go forward and you're going really fast so everything has a deadline. The best description would be like when you were learning to drive and you merged onto a highway the first time. Lots going on, can't slow down, just have to commit and try to keep up.

Is there any kind of indicator in the cockpit to remind the pilot? A light? A voice (like the stall voice), that says, "Hey doofus, you're descending and close to landing, so LOWER THE GEAR!"

colejohnson66 6y ago

I’m not a pilot, but I think there’s a “too low” warning

bdamm 6y ago
Most airplanes have a "too slow" warning as well, e.g. a speed at which the gear ought to be down because there isn't any other reason to be going so slow except to be landing. The speed also factors into gear retraction, e.g. you are not going fast enough to fly, so gear retraction will not be actuated even if commanded.

t0mas88 6y ago

There is. Some planes beep, others literally play a warning "too low, gear, too low, gear" in the cockpit and headsets. But gear up landings don't happen in a normal stable approach in nice weather. Gear up landings happen when something else is going on taking all the pilots' attention. Like in this incident they were too high, too fast and descending too quickly. That causes a lot of other warnings and distractions, so they completely didn't hear the gear warning.

dbcurtis 6y ago

A friend of mine that years ago (pre-F-18) was a carrier-rated Navy fighter pilot had, after he got out, flown a Mooney for a couple decades. His wife also a pilot. He always went down the checklist verbally, every time. One time on approach he said: “Gear down. Three in the green.” meaning gear down and locked indicator on all three wheels. His wife said: “You do not have three in the green.” The human brain is a funny thing. It will convince you of things that are not there just out of habit.

ceejayoz 6y ago
Yeah - checklists can become almost a chant, more music than informational. "Pointing and calling" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pointing_and_calling) appears to address this.
henvic 6y ago
When I cross a road I usually quickly look two or three times to check traffic, even when it's one-way. This way, I make sure that even if I'm in a hurry, I'll likely take a look at least once at each side.

schoen 6y ago

In this case, this video linked elsewhere in this thread described this happening here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO5rXxJRmf4&t=5m48s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zO5rXxJRmf4&t=5m48s (I think this is meant to be an accurate simulation of the same type of aircraft under the same conditions.) The current top comment in this thread also quotes the investigator report for this crash as saying > According to the FDR and CVR recordings several warnings and alerts such as over-speed, landing gear not down and ground proximity alerts were disregarded. So, yep. Although in the simulation, at least, this particular one is not a voice alert but is an annoying bell (with details of the reasons for the alert available elsewhere in the cockpit).

AWildC182 6y ago

You're not wrong at all, and there is. It's just surprisingly easy to filter it out. If something new or non-standard is happening (ATC gave you an unusual approach, there's a traffic conflict, etc) you WILL start filtering out the less important information such as the screech of a gear horn or some other in-your-face indicator right through touchdown. The thing about flying an aircraft is while it's 90% boring monotony, takeoff, approach and landing are all extremely time sensitive operations. It's easy to become cognitively saturated or to "get behind the aircraft". You can only go forward and you're going really fast so everything has a deadline. The best description would be like when you were learning to drive and you merged onto a highway the first time. Lots going on, can't slow down, just have to commit and try to keep up.