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But back in those very heterogeneous days (don’t forget go throw in Alpha and MIPS!) - computers running more exotic processors like SPARC were workstation-clas
by DaiPlusPlus 6y ago
But back in those very heterogeneous days (don’t forget go throw in Alpha and MIPS!) - computers running more exotic processors like SPARC were workstation-class and their manufacturers were responsive to requests from the SE community - so while I share your lack of concern about heterogeneity - I am concerned that Apple won’t be making their ARM platform the best for developer workloads (at least, non-iOS, non-macOS workloads) - remember that besides freeing them from Intel’s slower release schedule, Apple’s other main incentive for adopting ARM is to ensure their computers have a great performance-per-watt ratio but with a low power budget. I know their latest A-series chips are very, very competitive (sorry, I mean: mopping the floor) with Intel’s current mainstream chips, Apple’s expertise is still with low-power mobile devices - I’m not convinced Apple will be switching away from Xeon Chips in the MacPro or i7 (i9?) chips in the high-end MBPs - but most SEs I know using MBPs have their 13-inch models which are moving to ARM right away.
In short: I feel Apple’s consumer-oriented direction is starting to be at-odds with what they need to do in order to remain a compelling general development platform.
Remember that macOS became a favourite for web-application development only around 12-13 years ago (prior to that it was seen as an OS for creative-types) - because they were selling nice hardware with an equally nice Unix-family OS with a compelling desktop experience - take a look at typical Linux desktop distros from around the same time: visual eyesores and incompatible with most laptops thanks to OEM driver issues. Apple wasn’t specifically targeting software developers at all - they were even showing ominous signs of disinterest by discontinuing their X Windos server and going-back on their promise of establishing Java as a pillar of the OS.
With the move to ARM on laptops I think Apple will just lock-down the bootloader and won’t look back.
What’s funny now is Windows 10’s WSL and Windows Terminal, Docker support, etc are suddenly making Microsoft look good as an OS for writing code for non-Microsoft platforms. And at least with a Windows laptop - even ARM Windows laptops - you can tinker with the bootloader and fire-up Slackware if you really wanted to.
- adrianpike 6y agoYep, I think we're of one mind here. I'm not worried about the ARM architecture shift, but the whole direction of the platform makes me expect I won't be using a Macbook as my primary dev machine much longer. Interestingly enough - for personal hacks (mostly cross-compiling Golang to ARM, natch) I'm actually using WSL lately, and it's definitely good enough. Not perfect, but nothing much is.
- DaiPlusPlus 6y ago> Not perfect, but nothing much is. Has anyone ported Plan9 to ARM yet?
- grzm 6y agoFrom Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plan_9_from_Bell_Labs > Platforms: x86 / Vx32, x86-64, MIPS, DEC Alpha, SPARC, PowerPC, ARM
- nix23 6y agoShure!! http://9front.org/releases/ http://9front.org/releases/ .386.iso 386 pc .amd64.iso amd64 pc .pi.img arm paspberry pi 1, 2 and 3 .pi3.img arm64 raspberry pi 3 and 4
- dclusin 6y agoAs a life long Mac user my next machine is going to be a windows box. It's not so much hatred for Apple that's driving me. It just seems that Microsoft has a huge financial incentive now to play nicely with Linux due to their cloud business being pretty success and Apple with their iOS hegemony does not. The product decisions each company is making seem to reflect that. Also $4k buys a lot more windows box than it does apple.
- DaiPlusPlus 6y agoRe: Azure. Microsoft is lucky, more than anything else (Azure is a very nice platform now, but it was very feature-anaemic in comparison until about 5 years ago) AWS is king, so anyone with any reason to not use Amazon will automatically use the next-biggest/next-best Cloud provider - and that’s Microsoft. Which is odd: someone waking up from a 10-year coma would presume it would be Oracle or IBM, or from a major vendor of webhosting or VPS. Oracle was slow to get in, and IBM cheated by just buying Softlayer and then spectacularly cocking it up: https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/09/ibm-cloud-suffers-prolonged-outage https://techcrunch.com/2020/06/09/ibm-cloud-suffers-prolonge...