6 ms·

It is a power issue. Everyone was aware, but the remaining pilots refused to let the authorities do anything. The only reason this is happening is because of C

It is a power issue. Everyone was aware, but the remaining pilots refused to let the authorities do anything. The only reason this is happening is because of Covid-19. No flights, so pilots can't threaten to boycott flying. Let's see if the authorities have enough political capital to follow through with firing them all.

rob74 6y ago
I assume it was only "everyone" inside the airline? Because if I as a potential passenger knew that 30% of pilots in my country were flying with fake licenses, I wouldn't set foot in another plane...
SamuelAdams 6y ago
Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? If they really do need the pilots that badly, and the fake pilots demonstrate an interest in the job, why not just pay for their flight training directly and keep them grounded until that training is complete?
- rob74 6y ago
  I think you misunderstand the situation. From the point of view of the fake pilots, everything was just fine: they were doing a great job, the missing or dubious licenses were just a small formality, and the authorities couldn't force them to do anything...
- t0mas88 6y ago
  That training would probably fail. I've seen a few licensed pilots with a real license from a country that isn't ICAO standard (and I'm going to guess Pakistan is like that as well) sit in flight training. They didn't do very well, lots of bad habits, not a very enthusiastic attitude towards a training they think they don't need.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    > Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? Well, that training costs close to $100,000, takes up to 2 years, the fake pilots would have to pass several written, practical and medical tests. > They didn't do very well In Asian culture, staff only get promoted (one-way up) over time. So the concept of failing one of your pilots is a hard sell for local examiners - it would be scandalous behavior to flunk their sim ride. S. Korea rotates in US CFIs until they find compliant ones that will endorse, otherwise they're sent back to the US. Or they just use locals to rubber-stamp logbooks. One of the few recent US airline accidents was the SFO Asiana crash, which is the poster child for "not doing very well." (although why SFO turns off their ILS all the time is bizarre.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214
    - wishiwasoutside 6y ago
      "in Asian culture" why are you using Korean anecdotes to explain a Pakistani problem?
      - theduder99 6y ago
        hackernews
      - 1024core 6y ago
        Last I checked, Pakistan was in Asia....?
        skissane 6y ago
        I think the point is, that Pakistan and Korea are culturally very different. Different languages, different religions, different traditions, different histories, etc. So claiming they both share "Asian culture" is rather dubious since it isn't very clear what is this "Asian culture" which they allegedly both share. Some Asian countries do have some common cultural heritage. Japan and Korea were both heavily influenced by Chinese culture, for example. But, Pakistan and Korea, what common cultural heritage do they have?
crazygringo 6y ago
> No flights, so pilots can't threaten to boycott flying. But why would pilots with valid licenses boycott the government preventing pilots with fake licenses from flying? Wouldn't the valid-license pilots want this, because with less of them their salaries will go up? I can't imagine any scenario where people who passed a test would want people who didn't pass it to get the same benefits...?!?!
- abdullahkhalids 6y ago
  It is a state owned company. Pay scales are fixed, and everyone gets a fixed-known pension for life after retirement. So, getting your colleagues fired is not beneficial to you economically [1]. However, an accountability process that looks into the doing of pilots will get both valid license and invalid license holders in trouble, because I assure you, lots of valid license holders are also doing lots of other illegal things. So, its better as a group to resist all attempts at accountability and reform. [1] Also, you will be surprised how unambitious most people are. Religion being premier in everyone's life means that they care far more about what happens after they die, rather than trying to improve the life and society they have now. Yes, the irony of having fake licenses being not exactly good for their afterlife is lost on them.
  - aliswe 6y ago
    I can assure you that those people care as little about the afterlife than the current life.
thisrod 6y ago
I've heard that Garuda ended up replacing lots of their Indonesian pilots with foreigners. Maybe this will play out the same way: there won't be a lot of flying for Pakistani pilots to boycott, because the rest of the world will ban them.

rob74 6y ago

I assume it was only "everyone" inside the airline? Because if I as a potential passenger knew that 30% of pilots in my country were flying with fake licenses, I wouldn't set foot in another plane...

SamuelAdams 6y ago

Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? If they really do need the pilots that badly, and the fake pilots demonstrate an interest in the job, why not just pay for their flight training directly and keep them grounded until that training is complete?

rob74 6y ago
I think you misunderstand the situation. From the point of view of the fake pilots, everything was just fine: they were doing a great job, the missing or dubious licenses were just a small formality, and the authorities couldn't force them to do anything...
t0mas88 6y ago
That training would probably fail. I've seen a few licensed pilots with a real license from a country that isn't ICAO standard (and I'm going to guess Pakistan is like that as well) sit in flight training. They didn't do very well, lots of bad habits, not a very enthusiastic attitude towards a training they think they don't need.
- redis_mlc 6y ago
  > Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? Well, that training costs close to $100,000, takes up to 2 years, the fake pilots would have to pass several written, practical and medical tests. > They didn't do very well In Asian culture, staff only get promoted (one-way up) over time. So the concept of failing one of your pilots is a hard sell for local examiners - it would be scandalous behavior to flunk their sim ride. S. Korea rotates in US CFIs until they find compliant ones that will endorse, otherwise they're sent back to the US. Or they just use locals to rubber-stamp logbooks. One of the few recent US airline accidents was the SFO Asiana crash, which is the poster child for "not doing very well." (although why SFO turns off their ILS all the time is bizarre.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214
  - wishiwasoutside 6y ago
    "in Asian culture" why are you using Korean anecdotes to explain a Pakistani problem?
    - theduder99 6y ago
      hackernews
    - 1024core 6y ago
      Last I checked, Pakistan was in Asia....?
      - skissane 6y ago
        I think the point is, that Pakistan and Korea are culturally very different. Different languages, different religions, different traditions, different histories, etc. So claiming they both share "Asian culture" is rather dubious since it isn't very clear what is this "Asian culture" which they allegedly both share. Some Asian countries do have some common cultural heritage. Japan and Korea were both heavily influenced by Chinese culture, for example. But, Pakistan and Korea, what common cultural heritage do they have?

crazygringo 6y ago

> No flights, so pilots can't threaten to boycott flying. But why would pilots with valid licenses boycott the government preventing pilots with fake licenses from flying? Wouldn't the valid-license pilots want this, because with less of them their salaries will go up? I can't imagine any scenario where people who passed a test would want people who didn't pass it to get the same benefits...?!?!

abdullahkhalids 6y ago
It is a state owned company. Pay scales are fixed, and everyone gets a fixed-known pension for life after retirement. So, getting your colleagues fired is not beneficial to you economically [1]. However, an accountability process that looks into the doing of pilots will get both valid license and invalid license holders in trouble, because I assure you, lots of valid license holders are also doing lots of other illegal things. So, its better as a group to resist all attempts at accountability and reform. [1] Also, you will be surprised how unambitious most people are. Religion being premier in everyone's life means that they care far more about what happens after they die, rather than trying to improve the life and society they have now. Yes, the irony of having fake licenses being not exactly good for their afterlife is lost on them.
- aliswe 6y ago
  I can assure you that those people care as little about the afterlife than the current life.

thisrod 6y ago

I've heard that Garuda ended up replacing lots of their Indonesian pilots with foreigners. Maybe this will play out the same way: there won't be a lot of flying for Pakistani pilots to boycott, because the rest of the world will ban them.