11 ms·

New system76 laptop: Oryx Pro

145 points by _jordan 6y ago

apazzolini 6y ago
I love that this is a professional laptop that comes with a 144hz screen. But 1080p? Not even 1920x1200? Boo.. I want to replace my aging MacBook Pro and move to Linux, but finding a non-gaming laptop with a good screen seems to be an impossibility. Edit - To the people recommending laptops in this thread: Thanks for the suggestions, but none of them so far have had a 144hz screen. It's very hard to go back to 60hz after using a higher refresh rate monitor, even for simple things like literally moving a mouse around the screen and looking at the cursor. The only 144hz laptops I've found are 1080p, and that extra 120px of vertical room is a luxury I'm not yet willing to part with.
- pedrocr 6y ago
  Get an X1 Carbon with a 4K screen perhaps.
  - pinewurst 6y ago
    The X1 Carbon (and the XPS 13) use the less powerful U processors.
  - Descensus 6y ago
    Maybe? Any (recent, 8th gen and up) 's' model Thinkpad would be fine, especially with a WQHD screen. 4K would bludgeon their battery.
  - headcanon 6y ago
    Agreed. Not a powerhouse (get the X1 extreme if you need discrete graphics), but its an excellent product nonetheless.
- charliea0 6y ago
  Does the developer edition XPS work? https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystems https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystem...
  - rietta 6y ago
    I've been very pleased with my 2018 model of the XPS 13 Developer edition. Highly recommend.
  - SweetestRug 6y ago
    I have the 2019 XPS 13 with the hidpi screen. It runs Linux beautifully. I used to run Ubuntu 18.04 and now run Manjaro. Both work without a hitch. I use GNOME, so the hidpi performance is really great. I strongly recommend the XPS 13 line.
  - jvanderbot 6y ago
    Does the graphics system hold up? I wasn't able to find anything with reasonable CUDA cores (I do parallel algorithm development). Anyone have experience with Precision mobile workstations? Still seem quite slim form factor.
- bxparks 6y ago
  How about the Dell Precision 5550 or 5570? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-5550-5750-First-no-bezel-17-inch-workstation-from-Dell.464212.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-5550-5750-First... * 1920x1200 or 3840x2400 * 64MB RAM, ECC w/ Xeon CPU
- yingw787 6y ago
  I actually wanted a 1080p screen, because resolution scaling support on Linux may not be all that great. At least it broke somewhat on a 4k laptop I used. I like the freedom of Linux, but I find the best support to be for the least common denominator of feature sets.
- davrosthedalek 6y ago
  I second that. Why is it so hard to have something similar to a mac pro? My wish list: Good screen, around 15", 4k or at least more than 1080p, non-glare or glare-reduced, good, large touchpad, not too thick or heavy, usb-c charging, webcam.
- ardy42 6y ago
  > I love that this is a professional laptop that comes with a 144hz screen. But 1080p? Not even 1920x1200? Boo.. Yeah. 16:9 screens are frankly unprofessional. They're for gaming and movies, not work. Give us a 16:10 (like Apple and a handful of other vendors still use).
  - benologist 6y ago
    Give us an LG Gram 17 with a little more oomph and better speakers. The 17" 2560x1600 screen seems like it would be perfect for development - same resolution as the 13" MBP but a little more space to spread it out. https://www.lg.com/us/laptops/lg-17Z990-RAAS8U1-ultra-slim-laptop https://www.lg.com/us/laptops/lg-17Z990-RAAS8U1-ultra-slim-l...
    - zepearl 6y ago
      Agree, but as well a big "normal" keyboard (incl. a keypad). Basically like a lenovo p70/1/2/... but thin (and without discrete GPU nor superfast CPU). I just want a big screen & keyboard :(
  - yellowapple 6y ago
    Or 3:2. I got a Pixelbook on a whim a couple years back and the 3:2 display is one of many things I absolutely love about the hardware. If only I could do something about the software...
    - craftkiller 6y ago
      You can. Buy or solder a SuzyQable[1] to unlock the firmware, flash MrChromebox's coreboot build[2], and install linux on it. I'm typing this message right now on my pixelbook running Arch Linux. So far the only problems I have with it is the audio does not work and I can't change screen brightness. The screen brightness is because linux refuses to use DPCD when the PWM line is connected. On the pixelbook the PWM line is connected but doesn't do anything. There are kernel patches you can apply to force DPCD but personally I'm just hoping someone eventually commits a fix upstream to let us toggle it. [1] https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14746 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14746 [2] https://mrchromebox.tech/ https://mrchromebox.tech/
_jordan 6y ago
I do wish System76 could sell a Lenovo P53 and/or the new Dell XPS 17, but with pop installed with all the right drivers etc. It's worth the premium IMO to get a laptop you know will work well with linux.
- read_if_gay_ 6y ago
  The Lenovo P series is now certified for Ubuntu, though I’ve had bad experiences with a recent ThinkPad, so that certification better mean something.
  - yingw787 6y ago
    I have a P1 Gen 2 with Ubuntu installed. My USB-C ports on the left side of my computer don't work for some reason (might be a cable issue). There really isn't any support from Lenovo for Linux. I'm fine with it for now, but I think the certification is for a specific build of the OS + (one? idk) run from Canonical, as opposed to a comprehensive test from an OEM (e.g. like those monitor color/brightness reports you get during unboxing).
lunchladydoris 6y ago
I have to ask, do people really use number pads that often that it's worth having the main key section off center?
- gfodor 6y ago
  blender users do
  - dpedu 6y ago
    Is serious blender modeling done on laptops?
    - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
      Why does blender modeling have to be serious in the first place?
      - akoncius 6y ago
        why then ask this question when discussion is about purchasing "serious" laptop?
    - kasool 6y ago
      Yes
- edent 6y ago
  I do. Particularly useful with spreadsheets.
- dbcurtis 6y ago
  Solidworks users do for certain. But then again, they are running Windows.
- SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
  Yes, almost any time I type a number. It's much more comfortable, less of a stretch for my hands. Also a lot faster.
jdalgetty 6y ago
What is the reason for "NVIDIA graphics currently unavailable when dual-booting Windows." ?
- jandrese 6y ago
  Their new open firmware was developed on Linux. Windows support may or may not happen.
- jchw 6y ago
  I suspect those of us outside of System76 can only speculate, but it definitely has to do with the firmware. My best guess is the firmware must be initializing the GPU enough to get it up for Linux but not Windows, or dual booting requires a boot path that does not currently support initializing the GPU. I believe, from my limited experience hacking with laptops, that rather than use the traditional mechanisms for initializing PCI cards, video cards on laptops, particularly hybrid graphics ones, need special initialization on the laptop firmware itself.
  - cure 6y ago
    Something like that, yes. Coreboot lets the relevant driver in the Linux kernel do most of the hardware initialization. The firmware does comparatively little, just enough to make the driver recognize the hardware and configure it so it functions. The Windows driver for that hardware probably needs more handholding from the firmware. It's refreshing to see the tables turned for once. GNU/Linux first, Windows secondary :)
- michaelmior 6y ago
  That was disappointing when this thing also has the specs to be a decent gaming laptop if the GPU was usable in Windows. Not to say there aren't some great games available on Linux, but they're still the minority.
nyxtom 6y ago
Really wish they would get rid of the numpad layout and center that touchpad or make it bigger. Really bothers me that the touchpad isn’t centered, makes it awkward.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- taf2 6y ago
  Yeah it seems strange, like is this better for right handed people or left handed people when using the touchpad somehow I feel like it would depend on whether you use your right hand or left hand... I know in my case on a macbook pro, I use my right hand to mouse around and that is a stretch for my hands to reach down and to the left from my right hand which is ackward... as a vim user I value the idea of moving my hands as little as possible so the touchpad is definitely better then a mouse but still a last resort feature... still if it's further from my hand i dont' see how that could be good... but having it on the left side maybe if i was left handed the stretch would be somehow more optimized... but seems odd most people are right handed right? At least 70% from one google search indicates this is the case so yeah it makes no sense to me why a touchpad should not be centered or if anything biased towards the right side or ideally a configuration option...
  - rietta 6y ago
    I've just always practiced mousing with both right and left hands. It's good to have some balance in one's life. :-p (I follow this philosophy in my martial arts as well. Which turned out well enough when on my black belt test I accidentally did all my techniques lefty and still passed!)
- stock_toaster 6y ago
  Strongly agree. I was scrolling down the page thinking excitedly "hey, this might be nice!" until I saw the keyboard and touchpad then my brain did a "record skip sound" and it was off-putting enough for me that I just said "whelp" and closed the tab.
cs702 6y ago
Up to 64GB RAM (more than more people need), up to 4TB of fast NVMe SSD storage (more than most people use), an NVIDIA 8GB RTX 2080 GPU (you know, for training deep learning models on the road, if you ever feel like it), every port you could ever need and more (includes USB 3.2 Type-C w/Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.2 powered and unpowered, SD Card Reader, Wired Gigabit Ethernet, HDMI w/HDCP, Mini DisplayPort 1.4, regular Thunderbolt 3 -- it can be connected to everything), all in a fairly slim 4-5lb package. Not bad.
- ebg13 6y ago
  How long does the battery last? > NVIDIA graphics currently unavailable when dual-booting Windows How the hell did they manage to do that?
  - outworlder 6y ago
    My guess is firmware issues.
syntaxing 6y ago
Whoa wait, what is this hybrid graphics magic?! Has anyone tried it and does it work well? I might migrate to popOS just for this feature!
- bserge 6y ago
  Optimus has been around for a while. The most common setup is nVidia GPU running through the Intel IGP, and only powering up when the IGP is at full load (well, 70-80%). It works quite well, I guess. I never had a problem with it, but earlier driver versions were problematic.
  - syntaxing 6y ago
    I did not know about this! I wonder how it works with eGPU. I really want to load all my GPU power into certain apps only.
    - bserge 6y ago
      eGPUs were always iffy but Optimus does work on some laptops that already have an nVidia/Intel hybrid setup. At least on Windows. You need a Thunderbolt/PCI-E enclosure and an nVidia card, then you can basically replace the internal dedicated card with your eGPU and it works in hybrid mode as normal. It's only DIY stuff, but it's using nVidia's own Optimus drivers, so it's probably stable. Sadly, System76's implementation doesn't work with Windows (likely due to them using Coreboot) but it does work with Linux. I actually find that impressive, must've taken a lot of work to make it... work.
jchw 6y ago
It's awesome to see Coreboot on a laptop with discrete graphics. Sadly, though, this is a bittersweet deal imo, since you will get NVIDIA's trademark Linux experience, including binary blobs that occasionally prevent you from updating to the latest stable kernel and practically being stuck with Xorg for the rest of your life. I understand that NVIDIA simply has the best options (or at least, that would be my guess) but it's hard to still not be a little disappointed since I've been having a great time with AMDGPU on my desktop, running Wayland, up-to-date kernels and having great system stability.
- sbrother 6y ago
  In my niche at least (ML, data engineering) one of the main reasons to go with a Linux laptop instead of MacOS is so that you can run GPU accelerated ML workloads (i.e. CUDA) in development without shipping all your data to the cloud. I've been a happy System76 customer for years and I think this use case is fairly common for them -- they even ship a fantastic "out of the box" TensorFlow/CUDA setup (https://support.system76.com/articles/install-tensorflow/ https://support.system76.com/articles/install-tensorflow/) that has saved me days of dev time over my career so far. It's totally reliant on NVIDIA's products of course, but unlike AMD, Nvidia has heavily invested into the deep learning community so there's not really an alternative.
  - jchw 6y ago
    Yes this is a fair point and understood. I am not a user of ML so it’s irrelevant to me, so I’ll just hold out for hope eventually. I’d probably be okay with an AMD APU, but I have no idea what the Coreboot status is (has AMD made good on their promises?)
ebg13 6y ago
Did they actually make this, or is it another rebadge?
- bserge 6y ago
  Of course, it's a Clevo/Sager/whoever makes them design/chassis. Coreboot however, is a golden feature - not for everyone, but I really appreciate it in today's RSA encrypted, locked down BIOS times... I wish they were higher quality tbh, HP and Dell hardware is still well ahead :/
whycombagator 6y ago
I like their OS, but I will be interested in their laptops when they build their own chasis like they did with the Thelio desktop[0] & offer something other than Intel CPUs. [0] https://system76.com/desktops https://system76.com/desktops
robrenaud 6y ago
I bought a system76, because I didn't want to give MS money. It was janky and broke a year later. It had a lot of problems with the wireless connection dropping. So I bought a zareason laptop. It was basically the same hardware, it was janky and lasted two years. So then I splurged on a Thinkpad via LAC Portland, and it's been pretty wonderful. I just wish I could buy them from Lenovo directly.
- _jordan 6y ago
  you can't buy thinkpads from the lenovo website? TIL
  - kasool 6y ago
    You can't buy thinkpads loaded with Linux from Lenovo. This is the service LAC Portland provides.
    - rrmm 6y ago
      Didn't they recently announce they'd be available with Linux? https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-brings-linux-certification-to-thinkpad-and-thinkstation-workstation-portfolio-easing-deployment-for-developers-data-scientists/ https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-brin...
      - kasool 6y ago
        Yup
nickv 6y ago
I know, I know - getting a laptop with linux running natively is great, but seriously folks - just go buy something like an XPS 13 or Razer Blade for the same cost and put Linux on it. You'll get an infinitely better piece of hardware.
- liquidise 6y ago
  The Blade tops out at 16GB of ram and the XPS 13 only allows integrated graphics. I've heard complaints on HN about S76's keyboard and display choices before but this categorical dismissal of them feels remarkably unfair and frankly, false.
  - nickv 6y ago
    Sorry, I should have been specific. You are correct the Blade Stealth 13 comes with only 16gb of ram but I don't think it's in the same class as this S76 laptop because it doesn't have a 13" size equivalent. The Blade 15 comes with 32gb standard and I thought that was a fairer comparison but should have been more specific. It also comes with much much better display options, is lighter, larger battery, user upgradable Wifi, hard drive and ram (up to 64) and is frankly just a much higher quality build. My bad on the XPS 13 suggestion, I meant to say the XPS 15 which also does come with a Nvidia graphics card. With this machine, I think you're paying a premium for a rebadged Clevo laptop here that runs Linux out of the box. If you are willing to spend a day you can get a Blade running Linux on much better hardware.
- cryptoz 6y ago
  I bought an Ubuntu XPS 13 and Dell mailed me a Windows XPS 13. I spent some hours on the phone with support to asses if I should keep the device or return it. The support techs (many of them) seemed to agree I would be running into multiple significant troubles if I installed Ubuntu on their Windows XPS 13. I returned it. Now I'm on a System76 Galago Pro. It isn't perfect but gosh it has served me well these years.
  - de_dave 6y ago
    On my third XPS 13 now, each of which came with Windows, but I've been running Linux flawlessly on each since day one. So not sure what the techs would be referring to.
eberkund 6y ago
I know they just came out, but I am a little disappointed this laptop doesn't feature a Ryzen 4700U instead.
- staticvoidmaine 6y ago
  Their Serval Pro laptop has a Ryzen option
floatboth 6y ago
Fucking Nvidia, again. It's ridiculous that the most "Linux focused" laptop maker doesn't offer AMD GPUs.
- xur17 6y ago
  I remember 5-10 years ago, Nvidia was really the only option for Linux if you wanted reasonable performance (albeit with proprietary drivers).
- pdehaan 6y ago
  It would surprise me if the majority of the market for "linux laptop with fast discrete gpu" wasn't really just a subset of "devs that want CUDA support".
- robdachshund 6y ago
  AMD apus would be much preferable
kdamica 6y ago
My biggest peeve with System76 is how much they charge for extra chargers. An extra one for my Galago was $75 plus shipping, and this one is $125!
- choward 6y ago
  Although not in the same league, all I think is that the Pinebook Pro is only $199.
- LyndsySimon 6y ago
  This one appears to have a USB-C port. Is it usable for charging?
vikingcaffiene 6y ago
I own one of these as my daily driver. Its... fine. Pros - dead simple to upgrade the hardware. I was able to get 32GB of RAM and 3 1TB hard drives installed with no hassle or voiding of warranty. - its a beast of a machine when you spec it out capable of any workload you throw at it. - linux support is 1st class (obvs) - all aluminum chassis - the display is nice even tho its only 1080p - the keyboard key action is nice. I have a thinkpad for work and they are similar feel. - PopOS is amazing. - the backlit keyboard is cool Cons - you cant use external monitors without the NVIDIA card enabled which requires a reboot. This is the single largest failing IMO and is more annoying than you'd think it is. - you only get about an hour of battery life with the NVIDIA card enabled making it totally useless to keep on unless you plan on using this thing like a desktop all the time. - its a rebranded Clevo laptop and kinda ugly. It feels cheap to me despite the aluminum chassis. - the keyboard layout is weird. The number pad is unnecessary. - the speakers suck. Seriously. Like my headphones lying on my desk sound better - web cam is crappy - the screen itself feels flimsy - I dual boot into windows and its a second rate experience there.
- epanchin 6y ago
  Could you get a dock with an external graphics card?
- vosper 6y ago
  > - you cant use external monitors without the NVIDIA card enabled which requires a reboot. This is the single largest failing IMO and is more annoying than you'd think it is. > - you only get about an hour of battery life with the NVIDIA card enabled making it totally useless to keep on unless you plan on using this thing like a desktop all the time. With these 2 caveats I'm surprised you still think it's fine! I guess it depends on your work situation and pain tolerance. If I had to toggle graphics cards and reboot every time I detached or re-attached my laptop from/to my desk-with-external-monitor setup... Well, I wouldn't be happy about that.
  - jentist_retol 6y ago
    >With these 2 caveats I'm surprised you still think it's fine! I have a Macbook Pro for work. It is functionally a desktop that I can take home with me every day. If Apple shipped a Mac Mini with a built in 10 minute battery that auto hibernated the machine when i unplugged it, it would make sense for work to provision me one of those and save $800~ If this was my personal laptop, it'd be untenable though.
driverdan 6y ago
> Display: 15.6" or 17.3" FHD (1920x1080) 144 Hz refresh rate, Matte Finish WHY?!? Why do they keep using outdated, low res panels? I want to like system76 but can't with their bad displays.
apozem 6y ago
Work bought us System76 Gazelle laptops [1]. Quick thoughts after six months of use, coming from a MacBook Pro user: * Chiclet keyboard feels nice to type on * Plastic fake brushed-metal case is * Battery life is about an hour, almost unusable away from a charger. If I were spending my own money on this laptop, this would be a dealbreaker. * Built-in display sucks. It's allegedly matte, but still has incredibly high reflectiveness. 1080p resolution and just okay LCD color reproduction * Fan noise is a serious issue. I made the mistake of un-muting myself on a video call while the fans were going and other people on the call immediately muted me. They thought I was in a wind tunnel. * Webcam quality is low. Video calls with an open window behind you mean you will be washed out by backlighting * Performance is great. Runs a bunch of simultaneous headless Chrome browsers in Docker and completes our unit test suite pretty quickly. * The trackpad is truly horrendous. I use tap to click on my MBP, and I had to turn that off on the Gazelle real fast. Palm rejection is nonexistent - had false clicks every 15 minutes. That is not an exaggeration. * Keyboard is backlit * USB-A, HDMI, ethernet means it's easy to use it as a desktop * Built-in speakers sound tinny and low-quality * Large and clunky, but weight isn't bad I'm torn: Ubuntu and GNU/Linux generally are excellent developer environments, but the laptop hardware is horrible. It feels like the $600 Windows machines my friends used in college.
- speedgoose 6y ago
  About the fans noise and the microphone, Nvidia RTX Voice is great to remove noise. I wonder whether an open-source alternative for Linux exists. But if you work on windows and have a Nvidia RTX GPU, I can recommend it.
- apozem 6y ago
  [1]: https://system76.com/laptops/gazelle https://system76.com/laptops/gazelle
anuragsoni 6y ago
This is almost ideal for what i'm looking for in a laptop. I wish there was an option to get a better screen and no nvidia. I might be in the small group who wants this, but i wish it was easy to find a 15" laptop with a CPU like the one in oryx but without an NVIDIA gpu. I'd like to have a better cpu and i don't mind a laptop that's larger than the xps 13 or carbon, but i don't need/want a dedicated nvidia gpu. While we are wishing for things, please make more laptops with higher dpi screens. There are a lot of options for 1080p or lower, but very few good options (outside of macbooks or dell xps) that have high quality UHD displays. I'm on the market for a new laptop and the screen quality is the only reason i'm even contemplating a macbook.
- lhl 6y ago
  Doing a search by laptop spec [1], there is exactly one laptop model, the Lenovo Legion Y740S-15IMH [2] that has an i7-10875H CPU, a 4K display, and no dGPU. Sadly, it seems to have pretty limited region availability so far (see the PSREF listing to check). If you're willing to forgo the 4K display (a 15.6" 1080P screen at 24" is >60ppd, so it should be close to a "retina" display [3]) then you might have another option (the one I've been looking at). The latest AMD 4800H processors perform neck and neck with the i7-10875H (with much better power/perf) [4] and there's one ODM, Tongfang, that has a Renoir refresh (model PF5NU1G) that looks like it might be the best option available this generation (I'm looking for much the same thing as you - the highest CPU power possible, no dGPU for better battery life and less Linux hassle). It's using the same (1.5kg 15") chassis as their older Picasso model (see the Schenker VIA 15 NBC review for a good overview [5]) but with some notable improvements: * Improved dual fan, dual heat pipe cooling means it can boost to 65W and sustain 54W CPU performance * Dual channel, dual DDR4-3200 SODIMM slots (but the tradeoff is now only 1 M.2 slot) * slight display upgrade from N156HCE-EN1 [6] to a NV156FHM-N67 [7] - matte, 300nit, 100% sRGB, dE<2, 1000:1 contrast ratio FHD screen w/ DC (not PWM) dimming * USB-C PD (Power Delivery) support added, but no DP (DisplayPort alt mode); but has HDMI 2.0 support for a single 4K@60 external output It's currently on-sale already in China as the Mechrevo Code 01 for ~$750 [8] and is supposed to be coming to Schenker/Tuxedo soon (lots of technical details and an interesting discussion in DE here [9]). Eluktronics should be bringing it to the US soon as well [10]. I'd expect a price point of around 1000 USD/EUR. [1] https://laptopmedia.com/specs/?q=&hPP=20&idx=laptops&p=0&dFR%5Bcpu%5D%5B0%5D=Intel%20Core%20i7-10875H&dFR%5Bgpu%5D%5B0%5D=Intel%20UHD%20Graphics%20630&is_v=1 https://laptopmedia.com/specs/?q=&hPP=20&idx=laptops&p=0&dFR... [2] https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/Legion/Lenovo_Legion_Y740S15IMH https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/Legion/Lenovo_Legion_Y740S1... [3] http://phrogz.net/tmp/ScreenDensityCalculator.html#find:density,pxW:1920,pxH:1080,size:15.6,sizeUnit:in,axis:diag,distance:24,distUnit:in http://phrogz.net/tmp/ScreenDensityCalculator.html#find:dens... [4] https://www.notebookcheck.net/i7-10875H-vs-R7-4800H_11949_11677.247596.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/i7-10875H-vs-R7-4800H_11949_11... [5] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-VIA-15-Laptop-Review-a-lightweight-AMD-notebook.460698.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-VIA-15-Laptop-Review-... [6] http://www.panelook.com/N156HCE-EN1_Innolux_15.6_LCM_overview_30969.html http://www.panelook.com/N156HCE-EN1_Innolux_15.6_LCM_overvie... [7] http://www.panelook.com/NV156FHM-N67_BOE_15.6_LCM_overview_43039.html http://www.panelook.com/NV156FHM-N67_BOE_15.6_LCM_overview_4... [8] https://item.jd.com/100013420504.html https://item.jd.com/100013420504.html [9] https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/mechrevo-code-01-notebook-mit-amd-ryzen-7-4800h-ohne-dedizierte-gpu.1950290/page-9#post-24227866 https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/mechrevo-code-01-n... [10] https://www.reddit.com/r/eluktronics/comments/gs9e89/will_eluktronics_sell_this_tongfang_model_ryzen/fslwr82/ https://www.reddit.com/r/eluktronics/comments/gs9e89/will_el...
julesallen 6y ago
Drives my anti off-center homonculous up the wall to have the numpad pushing me over to the left (I know, I know). Would pay extra/same for a tenkeyless version.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
zumu 6y ago
What is the difference between buying a Clevo and installing PopOS versus buying a System76 laptop? As a Linux user, I'm generally just looking for a nice piece of hardware with good Linux support, and I have never felt Clevo /Sager were particularly good quality.
- staticvoidmaine 6y ago
  The difference is likely just whether or not you financially back/support all of the firmware/software/support services offered by System76
neonhat 6y ago
Open source firmware! But the graphics drivers are proprietary. lol
FunnyLookinHat 6y ago
System76 is likely going to fab their own laptops (instead of using Clevo as an ODM) within the next 2-3 years (just a hunch I have based on how long it took for them to go from talking about fabricating desktops to doing it). They've started asking people to share what they want here: https://github.com/system76/laptop-suggestions/issues https://github.com/system76/laptop-suggestions/issues If you really want a great Linux-first laptop, copy/paste all of your complaints/desires for hardware from here into that repository. Top of the list for me: - High powered laptop (e.g. 47W TDP CPU) without a graphics card. - Centered keyboard without a numpad. - 14" 1080p option for high-end laptops. Edit - Formatting + I used to work there, but this is NOT based on anything from when I did - just speculation. It was an AWESOME place to work as a Linux nerd though. :)
- rumanator 6y ago
  > System76 is likely going to fab their own laptops I've been hearing this for years, and System76 keeps on charging a premium for rebranded cheap Clevo laptops.
  - staticvoidmaine 6y ago
    Don’t forget that part of what’s wrapped into that premium is excellent support & warranty along with the development of firmware and Pop!_OS. It’s more than just the hardware. It’s ensuring you can rely on that hardware to work end to end.
    - rumanator 6y ago
      > Don’t forget that part of what’s wrapped into that premium is excellent support & warranty So you buy a cheap Clevo with support & warranty, for the same price you buy a high-end laptop from other OEMs. It's still a cheap Clevo, right? > along with the development of firmware and Pop!_OS. I don't see where Pop!_OS is a selling point when compared with mainstream Linux distros. > It’s more than just the hardware. Is it really? I mean, besides the colossal price tag hike for a rebranded Clevo. If all you want is a cheap Clevo then you can get the same end result for much less.
DataJunkie 6y ago
I worked at a startup and we had three System76 machines. 2 of them were DOA. Mine (a Serval Pro laptop) had a lot of issues with the display and getting support was a nightmare and it took so much work to get a replacement even under warranty. The other machine had a problem with the SSD. That was enough to convince me not to purchase a System76 for my next machine.
- robotbikes 6y ago
  I've bought a couple of System76 laptops used on eBay and they did have some hardware issues but they were still under warranty and while I had to ship the laptops out they were both fixed promptly and continue to work to this day. Its also nice to have Linux be supported by their support and who help you avoid all of the hair pulling insanity that can come with getting various drivers to work on any operating system. My Oryx Pro is one from two generations ago and yeah it is closer to a portable desktop than a mobile laptop but it is nice having all of that power in one box. I mean Linux power management on a core level hasn't received the love that say optimizing Linux server workloads has, so battery life is always going to be somewhat lacking especially with a massive GPU, so you have to keep it plugged in.
mark_l_watson 6y ago
I bought one almost two years ago. It is a pleasure to use and software is kept updated. I would buy another, when the time comes.
cc9one 6y ago
I want to buy a System76 laptop, however I can’t justify the purchase with a 1080p screen :(
gavinray 6y ago
Is this worth it? I've eyed System76 laptops for a while, just to see what the experience is like to run a laptop build with Linux integration in mind. On eBay, you can get a 32GB RAM, mid-range i5/i7, with RTX-2060 6GB for ~$1,300 used. It looks like ~$1,800 for the same specs (though brand new, and with a better CPU since it's 10th gen i7). I'm not a hardware guy, can anyone here weigh in? Would really appreciate it. Don't have a ton of money, I've been using a $650 Acer Nitro 5 with 8GB RAM + GTX 1060Ti (absolute steal) for few years but it's been freezing multiple times a day recently (lots of containers, my IDE, etc) so trying to future-proof best I can for max value.
- lhl 6y ago
  You're running into freezes mostly likely because you're running out of RAM. You should be able to upgrade your memory to 32GB for about $130. You can use this to help check compatibility: https://www.crucial.com/store/advisor https://www.crucial.com/store/advisor
  - gavinray 6y ago
    Oh I didn't know you could upgrade laptops. Thanks, it appears I can upgrade both memory and SSD on this model from the site you sent me =D Maybe I'll go that route for now, appreciate the reply.
glglwty 6y ago
Coreboot but Nvidia? Who's the target audience? Open boot firmware fans who also like Nvidia's proprietary driver? Edit: I looked at their website and I still don't understand what the marketing term "linux laptop" actually means. Does it power management that follows specs? Do they offer open source firmware upgrade tools that work on linux?

145 points by _jordan 6y ago

I love that this is a professional laptop that comes with a 144hz screen. But 1080p? Not even 1920x1200? Boo.. I want to replace my aging MacBook Pro and move to Linux, but finding a non-gaming laptop with a good screen seems to be an impossibility. Edit - To the people recommending laptops in this thread: Thanks for the suggestions, but none of them so far have had a 144hz screen. It's very hard to go back to 60hz after using a higher refresh rate monitor, even for simple things like literally moving a mouse around the screen and looking at the cursor. The only 144hz laptops I've found are 1080p, and that extra 120px of vertical room is a luxury I'm not yet willing to part with.

pedrocr 6y ago
Get an X1 Carbon with a 4K screen perhaps.
- pinewurst 6y ago
  The X1 Carbon (and the XPS 13) use the less powerful U processors.
- Descensus 6y ago
  Maybe? Any (recent, 8th gen and up) 's' model Thinkpad would be fine, especially with a WQHD screen. 4K would bludgeon their battery.
- headcanon 6y ago
  Agreed. Not a powerhouse (get the X1 extreme if you need discrete graphics), but its an excellent product nonetheless.
charliea0 6y ago
Does the developer edition XPS work? https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystems https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/overview/cp/linuxsystem...
- rietta 6y ago
  I've been very pleased with my 2018 model of the XPS 13 Developer edition. Highly recommend.
- SweetestRug 6y ago
  I have the 2019 XPS 13 with the hidpi screen. It runs Linux beautifully. I used to run Ubuntu 18.04 and now run Manjaro. Both work without a hitch. I use GNOME, so the hidpi performance is really great. I strongly recommend the XPS 13 line.
- jvanderbot 6y ago
  Does the graphics system hold up? I wasn't able to find anything with reasonable CUDA cores (I do parallel algorithm development). Anyone have experience with Precision mobile workstations? Still seem quite slim form factor.
bxparks 6y ago
How about the Dell Precision 5550 or 5570? https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-5550-5750-First-no-bezel-17-inch-workstation-from-Dell.464212.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Dell-Precision-5550-5750-First... * 1920x1200 or 3840x2400 * 64MB RAM, ECC w/ Xeon CPU
yingw787 6y ago
I actually wanted a 1080p screen, because resolution scaling support on Linux may not be all that great. At least it broke somewhat on a 4k laptop I used. I like the freedom of Linux, but I find the best support to be for the least common denominator of feature sets.
davrosthedalek 6y ago
I second that. Why is it so hard to have something similar to a mac pro? My wish list: Good screen, around 15", 4k or at least more than 1080p, non-glare or glare-reduced, good, large touchpad, not too thick or heavy, usb-c charging, webcam.
ardy42 6y ago
> I love that this is a professional laptop that comes with a 144hz screen. But 1080p? Not even 1920x1200? Boo.. Yeah. 16:9 screens are frankly unprofessional. They're for gaming and movies, not work. Give us a 16:10 (like Apple and a handful of other vendors still use).
- benologist 6y ago
  Give us an LG Gram 17 with a little more oomph and better speakers. The 17" 2560x1600 screen seems like it would be perfect for development - same resolution as the 13" MBP but a little more space to spread it out. https://www.lg.com/us/laptops/lg-17Z990-RAAS8U1-ultra-slim-laptop https://www.lg.com/us/laptops/lg-17Z990-RAAS8U1-ultra-slim-l...
  - zepearl 6y ago
    Agree, but as well a big "normal" keyboard (incl. a keypad). Basically like a lenovo p70/1/2/... but thin (and without discrete GPU nor superfast CPU). I just want a big screen & keyboard :(
- yellowapple 6y ago
  Or 3:2. I got a Pixelbook on a whim a couple years back and the 3:2 display is one of many things I absolutely love about the hardware. If only I could do something about the software...
  - craftkiller 6y ago
    You can. Buy or solder a SuzyQable[1] to unlock the firmware, flash MrChromebox's coreboot build[2], and install linux on it. I'm typing this message right now on my pixelbook running Arch Linux. So far the only problems I have with it is the audio does not work and I can't change screen brightness. The screen brightness is because linux refuses to use DPCD when the PWM line is connected. On the pixelbook the PWM line is connected but doesn't do anything. There are kernel patches you can apply to force DPCD but personally I'm just hoping someone eventually commits a fix upstream to let us toggle it. [1] https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14746 https://www.sparkfun.com/products/14746 [2] https://mrchromebox.tech/ https://mrchromebox.tech/

_jordan 6y ago

I do wish System76 could sell a Lenovo P53 and/or the new Dell XPS 17, but with pop installed with all the right drivers etc. It's worth the premium IMO to get a laptop you know will work well with linux.

read_if_gay_ 6y ago
The Lenovo P series is now certified for Ubuntu, though I’ve had bad experiences with a recent ThinkPad, so that certification better mean something.
- yingw787 6y ago
  I have a P1 Gen 2 with Ubuntu installed. My USB-C ports on the left side of my computer don't work for some reason (might be a cable issue). There really isn't any support from Lenovo for Linux. I'm fine with it for now, but I think the certification is for a specific build of the OS + (one? idk) run from Canonical, as opposed to a comprehensive test from an OEM (e.g. like those monitor color/brightness reports you get during unboxing).

lunchladydoris 6y ago

I have to ask, do people really use number pads that often that it's worth having the main key section off center?

gfodor 6y ago
blender users do
- dpedu 6y ago
  Is serious blender modeling done on laptops?
  - read_if_gay_ 6y ago
    Why does blender modeling have to be serious in the first place?
    - akoncius 6y ago
      why then ask this question when discussion is about purchasing "serious" laptop?
  - kasool 6y ago
    Yes
edent 6y ago
I do. Particularly useful with spreadsheets.
dbcurtis 6y ago
Solidworks users do for certain. But then again, they are running Windows.
SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
Yes, almost any time I type a number. It's much more comfortable, less of a stretch for my hands. Also a lot faster.

jdalgetty 6y ago

What is the reason for "NVIDIA graphics currently unavailable when dual-booting Windows." ?

jandrese 6y ago
Their new open firmware was developed on Linux. Windows support may or may not happen.
jchw 6y ago
I suspect those of us outside of System76 can only speculate, but it definitely has to do with the firmware. My best guess is the firmware must be initializing the GPU enough to get it up for Linux but not Windows, or dual booting requires a boot path that does not currently support initializing the GPU. I believe, from my limited experience hacking with laptops, that rather than use the traditional mechanisms for initializing PCI cards, video cards on laptops, particularly hybrid graphics ones, need special initialization on the laptop firmware itself.
- cure 6y ago
  Something like that, yes. Coreboot lets the relevant driver in the Linux kernel do most of the hardware initialization. The firmware does comparatively little, just enough to make the driver recognize the hardware and configure it so it functions. The Windows driver for that hardware probably needs more handholding from the firmware. It's refreshing to see the tables turned for once. GNU/Linux first, Windows secondary :)
michaelmior 6y ago
That was disappointing when this thing also has the specs to be a decent gaming laptop if the GPU was usable in Windows. Not to say there aren't some great games available on Linux, but they're still the minority.

nyxtom 6y ago

Really wish they would get rid of the numpad layout and center that touchpad or make it bigger. Really bothers me that the touchpad isn’t centered, makes it awkward.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
taf2 6y ago
Yeah it seems strange, like is this better for right handed people or left handed people when using the touchpad somehow I feel like it would depend on whether you use your right hand or left hand... I know in my case on a macbook pro, I use my right hand to mouse around and that is a stretch for my hands to reach down and to the left from my right hand which is ackward... as a vim user I value the idea of moving my hands as little as possible so the touchpad is definitely better then a mouse but still a last resort feature... still if it's further from my hand i dont' see how that could be good... but having it on the left side maybe if i was left handed the stretch would be somehow more optimized... but seems odd most people are right handed right? At least 70% from one google search indicates this is the case so yeah it makes no sense to me why a touchpad should not be centered or if anything biased towards the right side or ideally a configuration option...
- rietta 6y ago
  I've just always practiced mousing with both right and left hands. It's good to have some balance in one's life. :-p (I follow this philosophy in my martial arts as well. Which turned out well enough when on my black belt test I accidentally did all my techniques lefty and still passed!)
stock_toaster 6y ago
Strongly agree. I was scrolling down the page thinking excitedly "hey, this might be nice!" until I saw the keyboard and touchpad then my brain did a "record skip sound" and it was off-putting enough for me that I just said "whelp" and closed the tab.

cs702 6y ago

Up to 64GB RAM (more than more people need), up to 4TB of fast NVMe SSD storage (more than most people use), an NVIDIA 8GB RTX 2080 GPU (you know, for training deep learning models on the road, if you ever feel like it), every port you could ever need and more (includes USB 3.2 Type-C w/Thunderbolt 3, USB 3.2 powered and unpowered, SD Card Reader, Wired Gigabit Ethernet, HDMI w/HDCP, Mini DisplayPort 1.4, regular Thunderbolt 3 -- it can be connected to everything), all in a fairly slim 4-5lb package. Not bad.

ebg13 6y ago
How long does the battery last? > NVIDIA graphics currently unavailable when dual-booting Windows How the hell did they manage to do that?
- outworlder 6y ago
  My guess is firmware issues.

syntaxing 6y ago

Whoa wait, what is this hybrid graphics magic?! Has anyone tried it and does it work well? I might migrate to popOS just for this feature!

bserge 6y ago
Optimus has been around for a while. The most common setup is nVidia GPU running through the Intel IGP, and only powering up when the IGP is at full load (well, 70-80%). It works quite well, I guess. I never had a problem with it, but earlier driver versions were problematic.
- syntaxing 6y ago
  I did not know about this! I wonder how it works with eGPU. I really want to load all my GPU power into certain apps only.
  - bserge 6y ago
    eGPUs were always iffy but Optimus does work on some laptops that already have an nVidia/Intel hybrid setup. At least on Windows. You need a Thunderbolt/PCI-E enclosure and an nVidia card, then you can basically replace the internal dedicated card with your eGPU and it works in hybrid mode as normal. It's only DIY stuff, but it's using nVidia's own Optimus drivers, so it's probably stable. Sadly, System76's implementation doesn't work with Windows (likely due to them using Coreboot) but it does work with Linux. I actually find that impressive, must've taken a lot of work to make it... work.

jchw 6y ago

It's awesome to see Coreboot on a laptop with discrete graphics. Sadly, though, this is a bittersweet deal imo, since you will get NVIDIA's trademark Linux experience, including binary blobs that occasionally prevent you from updating to the latest stable kernel and practically being stuck with Xorg for the rest of your life. I understand that NVIDIA simply has the best options (or at least, that would be my guess) but it's hard to still not be a little disappointed since I've been having a great time with AMDGPU on my desktop, running Wayland, up-to-date kernels and having great system stability.

sbrother 6y ago
In my niche at least (ML, data engineering) one of the main reasons to go with a Linux laptop instead of MacOS is so that you can run GPU accelerated ML workloads (i.e. CUDA) in development without shipping all your data to the cloud. I've been a happy System76 customer for years and I think this use case is fairly common for them -- they even ship a fantastic "out of the box" TensorFlow/CUDA setup (https://support.system76.com/articles/install-tensorflow/ https://support.system76.com/articles/install-tensorflow/) that has saved me days of dev time over my career so far. It's totally reliant on NVIDIA's products of course, but unlike AMD, Nvidia has heavily invested into the deep learning community so there's not really an alternative.
- jchw 6y ago
  Yes this is a fair point and understood. I am not a user of ML so it’s irrelevant to me, so I’ll just hold out for hope eventually. I’d probably be okay with an AMD APU, but I have no idea what the Coreboot status is (has AMD made good on their promises?)

ebg13 6y ago

Did they actually make this, or is it another rebadge?

bserge 6y ago
Of course, it's a Clevo/Sager/whoever makes them design/chassis. Coreboot however, is a golden feature - not for everyone, but I really appreciate it in today's RSA encrypted, locked down BIOS times... I wish they were higher quality tbh, HP and Dell hardware is still well ahead :/

whycombagator 6y ago

I like their OS, but I will be interested in their laptops when they build their own chasis like they did with the Thelio desktop[0] & offer something other than Intel CPUs. [0] https://system76.com/desktops https://system76.com/desktops

robrenaud 6y ago

I bought a system76, because I didn't want to give MS money. It was janky and broke a year later. It had a lot of problems with the wireless connection dropping. So I bought a zareason laptop. It was basically the same hardware, it was janky and lasted two years. So then I splurged on a Thinkpad via LAC Portland, and it's been pretty wonderful. I just wish I could buy them from Lenovo directly.

_jordan 6y ago
you can't buy thinkpads from the lenovo website? TIL
- kasool 6y ago
  You can't buy thinkpads loaded with Linux from Lenovo. This is the service LAC Portland provides.
  - rrmm 6y ago
    Didn't they recently announce they'd be available with Linux? https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-brings-linux-certification-to-thinkpad-and-thinkstation-workstation-portfolio-easing-deployment-for-developers-data-scientists/ https://news.lenovo.com/pressroom/press-releases/lenovo-brin...
    - kasool 6y ago
      Yup

nickv 6y ago

I know, I know - getting a laptop with linux running natively is great, but seriously folks - just go buy something like an XPS 13 or Razer Blade for the same cost and put Linux on it. You'll get an infinitely better piece of hardware.

liquidise 6y ago
The Blade tops out at 16GB of ram and the XPS 13 only allows integrated graphics. I've heard complaints on HN about S76's keyboard and display choices before but this categorical dismissal of them feels remarkably unfair and frankly, false.
- nickv 6y ago
  Sorry, I should have been specific. You are correct the Blade Stealth 13 comes with only 16gb of ram but I don't think it's in the same class as this S76 laptop because it doesn't have a 13" size equivalent. The Blade 15 comes with 32gb standard and I thought that was a fairer comparison but should have been more specific. It also comes with much much better display options, is lighter, larger battery, user upgradable Wifi, hard drive and ram (up to 64) and is frankly just a much higher quality build. My bad on the XPS 13 suggestion, I meant to say the XPS 15 which also does come with a Nvidia graphics card. With this machine, I think you're paying a premium for a rebadged Clevo laptop here that runs Linux out of the box. If you are willing to spend a day you can get a Blade running Linux on much better hardware.
cryptoz 6y ago
I bought an Ubuntu XPS 13 and Dell mailed me a Windows XPS 13. I spent some hours on the phone with support to asses if I should keep the device or return it. The support techs (many of them) seemed to agree I would be running into multiple significant troubles if I installed Ubuntu on their Windows XPS 13. I returned it. Now I'm on a System76 Galago Pro. It isn't perfect but gosh it has served me well these years.
- de_dave 6y ago
  On my third XPS 13 now, each of which came with Windows, but I've been running Linux flawlessly on each since day one. So not sure what the techs would be referring to.

eberkund 6y ago

I know they just came out, but I am a little disappointed this laptop doesn't feature a Ryzen 4700U instead.

staticvoidmaine 6y ago
Their Serval Pro laptop has a Ryzen option

floatboth 6y ago

Fucking Nvidia, again. It's ridiculous that the most "Linux focused" laptop maker doesn't offer AMD GPUs.

xur17 6y ago
I remember 5-10 years ago, Nvidia was really the only option for Linux if you wanted reasonable performance (albeit with proprietary drivers).
pdehaan 6y ago
It would surprise me if the majority of the market for "linux laptop with fast discrete gpu" wasn't really just a subset of "devs that want CUDA support".
robdachshund 6y ago
AMD apus would be much preferable

kdamica 6y ago

My biggest peeve with System76 is how much they charge for extra chargers. An extra one for my Galago was $75 plus shipping, and this one is $125!

choward 6y ago
Although not in the same league, all I think is that the Pinebook Pro is only $199.
LyndsySimon 6y ago
This one appears to have a USB-C port. Is it usable for charging?

vikingcaffiene 6y ago

I own one of these as my daily driver. Its... fine. Pros - dead simple to upgrade the hardware. I was able to get 32GB of RAM and 3 1TB hard drives installed with no hassle or voiding of warranty. - its a beast of a machine when you spec it out capable of any workload you throw at it. - linux support is 1st class (obvs) - all aluminum chassis - the display is nice even tho its only 1080p - the keyboard key action is nice. I have a thinkpad for work and they are similar feel. - PopOS is amazing. - the backlit keyboard is cool Cons - you cant use external monitors without the NVIDIA card enabled which requires a reboot. This is the single largest failing IMO and is more annoying than you'd think it is. - you only get about an hour of battery life with the NVIDIA card enabled making it totally useless to keep on unless you plan on using this thing like a desktop all the time. - its a rebranded Clevo laptop and kinda ugly. It feels cheap to me despite the aluminum chassis. - the keyboard layout is weird. The number pad is unnecessary. - the speakers suck. Seriously. Like my headphones lying on my desk sound better - web cam is crappy - the screen itself feels flimsy - I dual boot into windows and its a second rate experience there.

epanchin 6y ago
Could you get a dock with an external graphics card?
vosper 6y ago
> - you cant use external monitors without the NVIDIA card enabled which requires a reboot. This is the single largest failing IMO and is more annoying than you'd think it is. > - you only get about an hour of battery life with the NVIDIA card enabled making it totally useless to keep on unless you plan on using this thing like a desktop all the time. With these 2 caveats I'm surprised you still think it's fine! I guess it depends on your work situation and pain tolerance. If I had to toggle graphics cards and reboot every time I detached or re-attached my laptop from/to my desk-with-external-monitor setup... Well, I wouldn't be happy about that.
- jentist_retol 6y ago
  >With these 2 caveats I'm surprised you still think it's fine! I have a Macbook Pro for work. It is functionally a desktop that I can take home with me every day. If Apple shipped a Mac Mini with a built in 10 minute battery that auto hibernated the machine when i unplugged it, it would make sense for work to provision me one of those and save $800~ If this was my personal laptop, it'd be untenable though.

driverdan 6y ago

> Display: 15.6" or 17.3" FHD (1920x1080) 144 Hz refresh rate, Matte Finish WHY?!? Why do they keep using outdated, low res panels? I want to like system76 but can't with their bad displays.

apozem 6y ago

Work bought us System76 Gazelle laptops [1]. Quick thoughts after six months of use, coming from a MacBook Pro user: * Chiclet keyboard feels nice to type on * Plastic fake brushed-metal case is * Battery life is about an hour, almost unusable away from a charger. If I were spending my own money on this laptop, this would be a dealbreaker. * Built-in display sucks. It's allegedly matte, but still has incredibly high reflectiveness. 1080p resolution and just okay LCD color reproduction * Fan noise is a serious issue. I made the mistake of un-muting myself on a video call while the fans were going and other people on the call immediately muted me. They thought I was in a wind tunnel. * Webcam quality is low. Video calls with an open window behind you mean you will be washed out by backlighting * Performance is great. Runs a bunch of simultaneous headless Chrome browsers in Docker and completes our unit test suite pretty quickly. * The trackpad is truly horrendous. I use tap to click on my MBP, and I had to turn that off on the Gazelle real fast. Palm rejection is nonexistent - had false clicks every 15 minutes. That is not an exaggeration. * Keyboard is backlit * USB-A, HDMI, ethernet means it's easy to use it as a desktop * Built-in speakers sound tinny and low-quality * Large and clunky, but weight isn't bad I'm torn: Ubuntu and GNU/Linux generally are excellent developer environments, but the laptop hardware is horrible. It feels like the $600 Windows machines my friends used in college.

speedgoose 6y ago
About the fans noise and the microphone, Nvidia RTX Voice is great to remove noise. I wonder whether an open-source alternative for Linux exists. But if you work on windows and have a Nvidia RTX GPU, I can recommend it.
apozem 6y ago
[1]: https://system76.com/laptops/gazelle https://system76.com/laptops/gazelle

anuragsoni 6y ago

This is almost ideal for what i'm looking for in a laptop. I wish there was an option to get a better screen and no nvidia. I might be in the small group who wants this, but i wish it was easy to find a 15" laptop with a CPU like the one in oryx but without an NVIDIA gpu. I'd like to have a better cpu and i don't mind a laptop that's larger than the xps 13 or carbon, but i don't need/want a dedicated nvidia gpu. While we are wishing for things, please make more laptops with higher dpi screens. There are a lot of options for 1080p or lower, but very few good options (outside of macbooks or dell xps) that have high quality UHD displays. I'm on the market for a new laptop and the screen quality is the only reason i'm even contemplating a macbook.

lhl 6y ago
Doing a search by laptop spec [1], there is exactly one laptop model, the Lenovo Legion Y740S-15IMH [2] that has an i7-10875H CPU, a 4K display, and no dGPU. Sadly, it seems to have pretty limited region availability so far (see the PSREF listing to check). If you're willing to forgo the 4K display (a 15.6" 1080P screen at 24" is >60ppd, so it should be close to a "retina" display [3]) then you might have another option (the one I've been looking at). The latest AMD 4800H processors perform neck and neck with the i7-10875H (with much better power/perf) [4] and there's one ODM, Tongfang, that has a Renoir refresh (model PF5NU1G) that looks like it might be the best option available this generation (I'm looking for much the same thing as you - the highest CPU power possible, no dGPU for better battery life and less Linux hassle). It's using the same (1.5kg 15") chassis as their older Picasso model (see the Schenker VIA 15 NBC review for a good overview [5]) but with some notable improvements: * Improved dual fan, dual heat pipe cooling means it can boost to 65W and sustain 54W CPU performance * Dual channel, dual DDR4-3200 SODIMM slots (but the tradeoff is now only 1 M.2 slot) * slight display upgrade from N156HCE-EN1 [6] to a NV156FHM-N67 [7] - matte, 300nit, 100% sRGB, dE<2, 1000:1 contrast ratio FHD screen w/ DC (not PWM) dimming * USB-C PD (Power Delivery) support added, but no DP (DisplayPort alt mode); but has HDMI 2.0 support for a single 4K@60 external output It's currently on-sale already in China as the Mechrevo Code 01 for ~$750 [8] and is supposed to be coming to Schenker/Tuxedo soon (lots of technical details and an interesting discussion in DE here [9]). Eluktronics should be bringing it to the US soon as well [10]. I'd expect a price point of around 1000 USD/EUR. [1] https://laptopmedia.com/specs/?q=&hPP=20&idx=laptops&p=0&dFR%5Bcpu%5D%5B0%5D=Intel%20Core%20i7-10875H&dFR%5Bgpu%5D%5B0%5D=Intel%20UHD%20Graphics%20630&is_v=1 https://laptopmedia.com/specs/?q=&hPP=20&idx=laptops&p=0&dFR... [2] https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/Legion/Lenovo_Legion_Y740S15IMH https://psref.lenovo.com/Product/Legion/Lenovo_Legion_Y740S1... [3] http://phrogz.net/tmp/ScreenDensityCalculator.html#find:density,pxW:1920,pxH:1080,size:15.6,sizeUnit:in,axis:diag,distance:24,distUnit:in http://phrogz.net/tmp/ScreenDensityCalculator.html#find:dens... [4] https://www.notebookcheck.net/i7-10875H-vs-R7-4800H_11949_11677.247596.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/i7-10875H-vs-R7-4800H_11949_11... [5] https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-VIA-15-Laptop-Review-a-lightweight-AMD-notebook.460698.0.html https://www.notebookcheck.net/Schenker-VIA-15-Laptop-Review-... [6] http://www.panelook.com/N156HCE-EN1_Innolux_15.6_LCM_overview_30969.html http://www.panelook.com/N156HCE-EN1_Innolux_15.6_LCM_overvie... [7] http://www.panelook.com/NV156FHM-N67_BOE_15.6_LCM_overview_43039.html http://www.panelook.com/NV156FHM-N67_BOE_15.6_LCM_overview_4... [8] https://item.jd.com/100013420504.html https://item.jd.com/100013420504.html [9] https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/mechrevo-code-01-notebook-mit-amd-ryzen-7-4800h-ohne-dedizierte-gpu.1950290/page-9#post-24227866 https://www.computerbase.de/forum/threads/mechrevo-code-01-n... [10] https://www.reddit.com/r/eluktronics/comments/gs9e89/will_eluktronics_sell_this_tongfang_model_ryzen/fslwr82/ https://www.reddit.com/r/eluktronics/comments/gs9e89/will_el...

julesallen 6y ago

Drives my anti off-center homonculous up the wall to have the numpad pushing me over to the left (I know, I know). Would pay extra/same for a tenkeyless version.

deleted 6y ago

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zumu 6y ago

What is the difference between buying a Clevo and installing PopOS versus buying a System76 laptop? As a Linux user, I'm generally just looking for a nice piece of hardware with good Linux support, and I have never felt Clevo /Sager were particularly good quality.

staticvoidmaine 6y ago
The difference is likely just whether or not you financially back/support all of the firmware/software/support services offered by System76

neonhat 6y ago

Open source firmware! But the graphics drivers are proprietary. lol

FunnyLookinHat 6y ago

System76 is likely going to fab their own laptops (instead of using Clevo as an ODM) within the next 2-3 years (just a hunch I have based on how long it took for them to go from talking about fabricating desktops to doing it). They've started asking people to share what they want here: https://github.com/system76/laptop-suggestions/issues https://github.com/system76/laptop-suggestions/issues If you really want a great Linux-first laptop, copy/paste all of your complaints/desires for hardware from here into that repository. Top of the list for me: - High powered laptop (e.g. 47W TDP CPU) without a graphics card. - Centered keyboard without a numpad. - 14" 1080p option for high-end laptops. Edit - Formatting + I used to work there, but this is NOT based on anything from when I did - just speculation. It was an AWESOME place to work as a Linux nerd though. :)

rumanator 6y ago
> System76 is likely going to fab their own laptops I've been hearing this for years, and System76 keeps on charging a premium for rebranded cheap Clevo laptops.
- staticvoidmaine 6y ago
  Don’t forget that part of what’s wrapped into that premium is excellent support & warranty along with the development of firmware and Pop!_OS. It’s more than just the hardware. It’s ensuring you can rely on that hardware to work end to end.
  - rumanator 6y ago
    > Don’t forget that part of what’s wrapped into that premium is excellent support & warranty So you buy a cheap Clevo with support & warranty, for the same price you buy a high-end laptop from other OEMs. It's still a cheap Clevo, right? > along with the development of firmware and Pop!_OS. I don't see where Pop!_OS is a selling point when compared with mainstream Linux distros. > It’s more than just the hardware. Is it really? I mean, besides the colossal price tag hike for a rebranded Clevo. If all you want is a cheap Clevo then you can get the same end result for much less.

DataJunkie 6y ago

I worked at a startup and we had three System76 machines. 2 of them were DOA. Mine (a Serval Pro laptop) had a lot of issues with the display and getting support was a nightmare and it took so much work to get a replacement even under warranty. The other machine had a problem with the SSD. That was enough to convince me not to purchase a System76 for my next machine.

robotbikes 6y ago
I've bought a couple of System76 laptops used on eBay and they did have some hardware issues but they were still under warranty and while I had to ship the laptops out they were both fixed promptly and continue to work to this day. Its also nice to have Linux be supported by their support and who help you avoid all of the hair pulling insanity that can come with getting various drivers to work on any operating system. My Oryx Pro is one from two generations ago and yeah it is closer to a portable desktop than a mobile laptop but it is nice having all of that power in one box. I mean Linux power management on a core level hasn't received the love that say optimizing Linux server workloads has, so battery life is always going to be somewhat lacking especially with a massive GPU, so you have to keep it plugged in.

mark_l_watson 6y ago

I bought one almost two years ago. It is a pleasure to use and software is kept updated. I would buy another, when the time comes.

cc9one 6y ago

I want to buy a System76 laptop, however I can’t justify the purchase with a 1080p screen :(

gavinray 6y ago

Is this worth it? I've eyed System76 laptops for a while, just to see what the experience is like to run a laptop build with Linux integration in mind. On eBay, you can get a 32GB RAM, mid-range i5/i7, with RTX-2060 6GB for ~$1,300 used. It looks like ~$1,800 for the same specs (though brand new, and with a better CPU since it's 10th gen i7). I'm not a hardware guy, can anyone here weigh in? Would really appreciate it. Don't have a ton of money, I've been using a $650 Acer Nitro 5 with 8GB RAM + GTX 1060Ti (absolute steal) for few years but it's been freezing multiple times a day recently (lots of containers, my IDE, etc) so trying to future-proof best I can for max value.

lhl 6y ago
You're running into freezes mostly likely because you're running out of RAM. You should be able to upgrade your memory to 32GB for about $130. You can use this to help check compatibility: https://www.crucial.com/store/advisor https://www.crucial.com/store/advisor
- gavinray 6y ago
  Oh I didn't know you could upgrade laptops. Thanks, it appears I can upgrade both memory and SSD on this model from the site you sent me =D Maybe I'll go that route for now, appreciate the reply.

glglwty 6y ago

Coreboot but Nvidia? Who's the target audience? Open boot firmware fans who also like Nvidia's proprietary driver? Edit: I looked at their website and I still don't understand what the marketing term "linux laptop" actually means. Does it power management that follows specs? Do they offer open source firmware upgrade tools that work on linux?