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Also, Node.js is doing just fine without a full-fledged framework like RoR or Django. In my current environment (~100 engineers, cross-functional teams, many N

Also, Node.js is doing just fine without a full-fledged framework like RoR or Django. In my current environment (~100 engineers, cross-functional teams, many Node.js services per pod), we have a few recommendations for libraries (Koa, knex, Passport, Boom, etc) but the glue on how to connect those are left to the engineer/pod. We don't feel the need for a stricter framework. Although I would like to hear other opinions on how that could be bad and if with a framework things would be better.

yagodragon 6y ago
It doesn't really matter anyway but Koa.js(and express.js) creator TJ Holowaychuk switched from Node to Go at ~2014 and hasn't look back. After all these years he's still the number one contributor on github. It's very sad seeing how poorly maintained all these nodejs stuff is. 5 years ago everyone thought that express.js is gonna disrupt the world and replace "legacy" web stack
- BossingAround 6y ago
  > replace "legacy" web stack As Ruby wanes into death, Express takes its place. Not sure about Python and Django/Flask, but I have a feeling they never got any overwhelming foothold in webdev anyways. The question is whether web developers want to learn strongly typed Go, which is quite a jump from Python, PHP, JS, or Ruby. Go has quite a steep learning curve even coming from TS. I personally feel like Go is the future, but I wouldn't be surprised if Node became the defacto standard. Year after year, JS is among top 3, if not #1, used language in developer surveys.
  - yagodragon 6y ago
    I'm not talking about Javascript as a language vs Ruby/Python. Javascript is super hot and exciting and react.js is eating the web no doubt. I'm talking about classic, stateful MVC monolithic backends, which is the most common architecture for web apps. This is where Node.js sucks. Seriously, if you created a new SaaS business, would you choose express.js instead of Rails for your backend? I believe you'd be in a serious disadvantage. > As Ruby wanes into death, Express takes its place. Say that to Github, AirBnb, Shopify, Stripe and many more companies.I don't even know ruby or rails but i appreciate what it has done for the web and how much time it's saving people around the world. Express.js basically ignores all these advancements in productivity brought by rails, by requiring you to install so many small packages for small details that you'll probably need at some point anyway.
    - BossingAround 6y ago
      > Seriously, if you created a new SaaS business, would you choose express.js instead of Rails for your backend? To be completely honest, probably yes. As far as I know, Ruby has some serious performance and memory leak problems. > Say that to Github, AirBnb, Shopify, Stripe and many more companies. Sure... My company has legacy code in Groovy. It's still used, maintained, and productive. That said, I'd never say that my company is a heavy groovy user. Rather, my company didn't want to spend resources to get rid of Groovy. I don't know Ruby that well, but I'm having hard time seeing cool new cloud-native projects heavily utilizing containerized Ruby.
      - nesarkvechnep 6y ago
        You're not seeing such projects because you're not looking and going to choose Express again because that's what you've been using. Consider that there might be better tools for a particular job.

yagodragon 6y ago

It doesn't really matter anyway but Koa.js(and express.js) creator TJ Holowaychuk switched from Node to Go at ~2014 and hasn't look back. After all these years he's still the number one contributor on github. It's very sad seeing how poorly maintained all these nodejs stuff is. 5 years ago everyone thought that express.js is gonna disrupt the world and replace "legacy" web stack

BossingAround 6y ago
> replace "legacy" web stack As Ruby wanes into death, Express takes its place. Not sure about Python and Django/Flask, but I have a feeling they never got any overwhelming foothold in webdev anyways. The question is whether web developers want to learn strongly typed Go, which is quite a jump from Python, PHP, JS, or Ruby. Go has quite a steep learning curve even coming from TS. I personally feel like Go is the future, but I wouldn't be surprised if Node became the defacto standard. Year after year, JS is among top 3, if not #1, used language in developer surveys.
- yagodragon 6y ago
  I'm not talking about Javascript as a language vs Ruby/Python. Javascript is super hot and exciting and react.js is eating the web no doubt. I'm talking about classic, stateful MVC monolithic backends, which is the most common architecture for web apps. This is where Node.js sucks. Seriously, if you created a new SaaS business, would you choose express.js instead of Rails for your backend? I believe you'd be in a serious disadvantage. > As Ruby wanes into death, Express takes its place. Say that to Github, AirBnb, Shopify, Stripe and many more companies.I don't even know ruby or rails but i appreciate what it has done for the web and how much time it's saving people around the world. Express.js basically ignores all these advancements in productivity brought by rails, by requiring you to install so many small packages for small details that you'll probably need at some point anyway.
  - BossingAround 6y ago
    > Seriously, if you created a new SaaS business, would you choose express.js instead of Rails for your backend? To be completely honest, probably yes. As far as I know, Ruby has some serious performance and memory leak problems. > Say that to Github, AirBnb, Shopify, Stripe and many more companies. Sure... My company has legacy code in Groovy. It's still used, maintained, and productive. That said, I'd never say that my company is a heavy groovy user. Rather, my company didn't want to spend resources to get rid of Groovy. I don't know Ruby that well, but I'm having hard time seeing cool new cloud-native projects heavily utilizing containerized Ruby.
    - nesarkvechnep 6y ago
      You're not seeing such projects because you're not looking and going to choose Express again because that's what you've been using. Consider that there might be better tools for a particular job.