4 ms·

On a smaller but more widespread scale is the issue of fake licenses for driving automobiles. It is common knowledge how you can get these licenses easily in "s

On a smaller but more widespread scale is the issue of fake licenses for driving automobiles. It is common knowledge how you can get these licenses easily in "some" (similar) countries without ever giving a driving test and/or going through any sort of written exam where you have to go through the rules of the road. Some argue that they are only endangering their own lives on the road but one can see how that is complete BS when you are on the road and come across such drivers. If people were put through an extremely arduous journey to get their driving licenses with the possibility of them being taken away when you break a certain degree of rules, people would have a strong motivation to not be negligent on the road.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Adding big hoops to jump through and lots of ways to lose the ability to legally do something that is more or less required to be a functioning member of society in many places does not seem wise to me. People wouldn't be breaking the law in order to drive if being able to drive wasn't a really big deal.
- albntomat0 6y ago
  I understand the point you're trying to make, but being given the ability to pilot a multi-ton vehicle at 70+ mph clearly needs testing requirements. They needn't be overly burdensome, but absolutely need to consistently apply. If someone has to search out a place with no literally requirements, as the parent comment states, they really should not be driving.
- wongarsu 6y ago
  Why shouldn't people be able to loose the ability to steer high-speed vehicles if they choose to endanger other people's lives (by driving drunk, significantly speeding, disregarding right of way, etc.). Similarly dangerous behavior in other areas of life often carries prison sentences, so just loosing a license doesn't seem that bad.
thrill 6y ago
They would also have strong motivation to never bother to get training or a license.
- seesawtron 6y ago
  That's a win-win for public being safe from negligent/undisciplined drivers and for environment with increased use of public transportation.
bserge 6y ago
In such countries, the low level corruption plays a big part in that. It's hard to pass the tests when everyone wants money directly from you. Pay a driving instructor, fail, try again, pay another guy, fail, repeat until you realize maybe it would be best to just buy it by bribing someone higher up :/
- NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
  Exactly. You know that you're going to end up making a "facilitation payment" to an official to get something done after you've met all the actual, legal requirements. What is your incentive to meet those requirements when the "bribe" to that same official to get that same thing done is the same amount of money, only you don't need to go through the legal hoops? As a matter of law, for U.S. companies the former is legal under the FCPA whereas the latter is not. For individuals ... the incentives are all to heck.
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
adrianmonk 6y ago
I actually watched someone get a fake driver's license in the California DMV once a long time ago. (This was at the old location at the corner of Latham and Showers in Mountain View.) I was taking the wyritten test after having moved there, and there was a woman (around 18) also taking the written test and blatantly cheating. She had the book with the answers out in plain sight and was just reading them and discussing them with her friends who were also taking the test. The DMV employee noticed and warned the woman to stop. She put the book away for a brief moment, then got it out again. The DMV employee saw all of this. The same thing kept happening, and the DMV employee kept giving toothless warnings. Finally, the DMV employee allowed the woman to turn in her test. As far as I know, assuming she passed the driving portion of the test, she got her license that day.
- 1024core 6y ago
  On one of my first visits to the DMV in San Francisco, I saw an employee ask around for the test key (this was about 10+ years ago, so they had a physical sheet of paper that was the key of correct answers) and hand it over to a test taker. I just assumed that it was some form of an internal testing thing, until I ended up behind her in the line to get photographed, when I realized that she was actually an applicant.
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
For what it is worth, the driving license process has become much more legitimized over the last decade. It is still a total farce, in the sense that the test is a complete joke. But at least most people are going through the legal process rather than paying someone off. This was cleverly achieved by the state disrupting the "bribery" market at all these govt offices. You used to pay this dude 5000 Rupees to fast track your license, how about you pay us Rs. 5000 officially, and we will fast track it for you. Before you paid Rs. 10,000 to the guy to get your document without leaving your house, how about you order the document on our website, pay Rs. 10,000 and we will courier it to you. Its really impressive how much of an impact this has made. We still have a long way to go, but things get better every year.
baybal2 6y ago
Believe or not, in Russia, we had fake civil servants including fake judges, and prosecutors. Fake academicians, and fake professors. My favourites were fake doctors, with fake general surgeons included. Ah, the best I think really were the fake dentists...
flak48 6y ago
When I took my driving test in India, 3 other candidates ('coincidentally' all female) were made to sit on the backseat, with me at the wheel and the examiner next to me. After the test (in which only I drove), all 4 of us were granted licenses. The queue for the test was managed in this way - pick one male and pick the 3 next females in queue and pack them up in one car with only the male to drive. I guess they for whatever reason didn't trust women to pass the test by themselves (or they were just sure they knew how to drive?). Or didn't want to waste time testing everyone. And the test itself ? Take a U turn and stop the car. That's it. I don't know why they even bothered doing the test. Plausible deniability I guess - all of use technically 'took' a test. Oh after I got out of the car, I asked when my motorcycle test would be, since I had applied for a 2 wheeler license as well. And they just told me you passed the 4 wheeler driving test right? Don't worry about it, we'll send the 2 wheeler license as well. This was in a major city. If you happen to be in a village or town they don't even bother with this pretence of a test. No wonder India has the highest rate of road accident related fatalities.
fyfy18 6y ago
There's plenty of EU countries where this is the case too. I personally know people who have got their license back after being caught drink-driving because they knew the right person and how much to pay. Regarding the motorcycle test coming for free after passing the car test (as another commenter points out), this was common practice too. In the UK if you passed your car driving license before 2001, you can drive a 50cc moped without any training or learner plates.
- nicbou 6y ago
  This is not the case anymore. You must pass the test in the country where you reside. As for scooters... they're stupidly easy to ride, amd hardly faster than a bicycle which requires no safety equipment or training. Cyclists in Berlin are a greater danger to themselves in my opinion. Some aren't familiar with EU road rules. I wasn't until I got my licence. Fun fact: they actually replaced my Canadian licence with a German one without any tests. I didn't even know what the yellow diamond sign meant. It's a good thing I started over with my motorcycle licence.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

Adding big hoops to jump through and lots of ways to lose the ability to legally do something that is more or less required to be a functioning member of society in many places does not seem wise to me. People wouldn't be breaking the law in order to drive if being able to drive wasn't a really big deal.

albntomat0 6y ago
I understand the point you're trying to make, but being given the ability to pilot a multi-ton vehicle at 70+ mph clearly needs testing requirements. They needn't be overly burdensome, but absolutely need to consistently apply. If someone has to search out a place with no literally requirements, as the parent comment states, they really should not be driving.
wongarsu 6y ago
Why shouldn't people be able to loose the ability to steer high-speed vehicles if they choose to endanger other people's lives (by driving drunk, significantly speeding, disregarding right of way, etc.). Similarly dangerous behavior in other areas of life often carries prison sentences, so just loosing a license doesn't seem that bad.

thrill 6y ago

They would also have strong motivation to never bother to get training or a license.

seesawtron 6y ago
That's a win-win for public being safe from negligent/undisciplined drivers and for environment with increased use of public transportation.

bserge 6y ago

In such countries, the low level corruption plays a big part in that. It's hard to pass the tests when everyone wants money directly from you. Pay a driving instructor, fail, try again, pay another guy, fail, repeat until you realize maybe it would be best to just buy it by bribing someone higher up :/

NovemberWhiskey 6y ago
Exactly. You know that you're going to end up making a "facilitation payment" to an official to get something done after you've met all the actual, legal requirements. What is your incentive to meet those requirements when the "bribe" to that same official to get that same thing done is the same amount of money, only you don't need to go through the legal hoops? As a matter of law, for U.S. companies the former is legal under the FCPA whereas the latter is not. For individuals ... the incentives are all to heck.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]

adrianmonk 6y ago

I actually watched someone get a fake driver's license in the California DMV once a long time ago. (This was at the old location at the corner of Latham and Showers in Mountain View.) I was taking the wyritten test after having moved there, and there was a woman (around 18) also taking the written test and blatantly cheating. She had the book with the answers out in plain sight and was just reading them and discussing them with her friends who were also taking the test. The DMV employee noticed and warned the woman to stop. She put the book away for a brief moment, then got it out again. The DMV employee saw all of this. The same thing kept happening, and the DMV employee kept giving toothless warnings. Finally, the DMV employee allowed the woman to turn in her test. As far as I know, assuming she passed the driving portion of the test, she got her license that day.

1024core 6y ago
On one of my first visits to the DMV in San Francisco, I saw an employee ask around for the test key (this was about 10+ years ago, so they had a physical sheet of paper that was the key of correct answers) and hand it over to a test taker. I just assumed that it was some form of an internal testing thing, until I ended up behind her in the line to get photographed, when I realized that she was actually an applicant.

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

For what it is worth, the driving license process has become much more legitimized over the last decade. It is still a total farce, in the sense that the test is a complete joke. But at least most people are going through the legal process rather than paying someone off. This was cleverly achieved by the state disrupting the "bribery" market at all these govt offices. You used to pay this dude 5000 Rupees to fast track your license, how about you pay us Rs. 5000 officially, and we will fast track it for you. Before you paid Rs. 10,000 to the guy to get your document without leaving your house, how about you order the document on our website, pay Rs. 10,000 and we will courier it to you. Its really impressive how much of an impact this has made. We still have a long way to go, but things get better every year.

baybal2 6y ago

Believe or not, in Russia, we had fake civil servants including fake judges, and prosecutors. Fake academicians, and fake professors. My favourites were fake doctors, with fake general surgeons included. Ah, the best I think really were the fake dentists...

flak48 6y ago

When I took my driving test in India, 3 other candidates ('coincidentally' all female) were made to sit on the backseat, with me at the wheel and the examiner next to me. After the test (in which only I drove), all 4 of us were granted licenses. The queue for the test was managed in this way - pick one male and pick the 3 next females in queue and pack them up in one car with only the male to drive. I guess they for whatever reason didn't trust women to pass the test by themselves (or they were just sure they knew how to drive?). Or didn't want to waste time testing everyone. And the test itself ? Take a U turn and stop the car. That's it. I don't know why they even bothered doing the test. Plausible deniability I guess - all of use technically 'took' a test. Oh after I got out of the car, I asked when my motorcycle test would be, since I had applied for a 2 wheeler license as well. And they just told me you passed the 4 wheeler driving test right? Don't worry about it, we'll send the 2 wheeler license as well. This was in a major city. If you happen to be in a village or town they don't even bother with this pretence of a test. No wonder India has the highest rate of road accident related fatalities.

fyfy18 6y ago

There's plenty of EU countries where this is the case too. I personally know people who have got their license back after being caught drink-driving because they knew the right person and how much to pay. Regarding the motorcycle test coming for free after passing the car test (as another commenter points out), this was common practice too. In the UK if you passed your car driving license before 2001, you can drive a 50cc moped without any training or learner plates.

nicbou 6y ago
This is not the case anymore. You must pass the test in the country where you reside. As for scooters... they're stupidly easy to ride, amd hardly faster than a bicycle which requires no safety equipment or training. Cyclists in Berlin are a greater danger to themselves in my opinion. Some aren't familiar with EU road rules. I wasn't until I got my licence. Fun fact: they actually replaced my Canadian licence with a German one without any tests. I didn't even know what the yellow diamond sign meant. It's a good thing I started over with my motorcycle licence.