5 ms·

"PIA has grounded all its pilots who hold fake licenses, effective immediately." I would have thought anyone with a fake license was already grounded. It sound

"PIA has grounded all its pilots who hold fake licenses, effective immediately." I would have thought anyone with a fake license was already grounded. It sounds like they knew this was an issue and just looked the other way.

albntomat0 6y ago
It's concerning that they have such a specific number of pilots with fake licenses. It's not like this is something surprising that they're rushing to respond to, at least that's the impression I got from the article.
- not2b 6y ago
  If the issue is that someone else is taking tests for the fakers, how do they know who's a faker? They could flag the obviously incompetent people for extra testing, and possibly some of them have been informed on, but how do they know precisely who is a faker? Some of the pilots have a military background (flew for the air force) so those can be presumed to be real pilots, but the rest?
  - VBprogrammer 6y ago
    I hope against hope that when they say they don't have a licence we're talking about something less egregious than 'never had any formal training as a pilot'. Something like didn't bother getting a type rating for the specific aircraft type or failed to renew their licence at the correct point.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      > If the issue is that someone else is taking tests for the fakers, how do they know who's a faker? I can only talk about what I've heard in India. 1) No test is done. An official with access to blanks just prints another one for $1,000. The govt. could match up tests with the complete list of pilots with authorized licenses and get an exact count. 2) An impostor does the written and practical (flying) tests. This is common in IT also.
NelsonMinar 6y ago
I love the confidence they express in knowing all the pilots with fake licenses.
- konschubert 6y ago
  “It’s okay, we’ve made illegal stuff illegal now”
- adrianmonk 6y ago
  I haven't checked, but is the original comment even in English? It could be translated, in which case I would not read too much into the tone.
- syshum 6y ago
  I am sure they posted a Letter in all the airports "Do you have a Fake Lic. DO NOT FLY ;) "
ckozlowski 6y ago
I saw this too. This is one of the most nonsensical statements I've ever heard. I don't even know where to begin with this one.
abdullahkhalids 6y ago
It is a power issue. Everyone was aware, but the remaining pilots refused to let the authorities do anything. The only reason this is happening is because of Covid-19. No flights, so pilots can't threaten to boycott flying. Let's see if the authorities have enough political capital to follow through with firing them all.
- rob74 6y ago
  I assume it was only "everyone" inside the airline? Because if I as a potential passenger knew that 30% of pilots in my country were flying with fake licenses, I wouldn't set foot in another plane...
- SamuelAdams 6y ago
  Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? If they really do need the pilots that badly, and the fake pilots demonstrate an interest in the job, why not just pay for their flight training directly and keep them grounded until that training is complete?
  - rob74 6y ago
    I think you misunderstand the situation. From the point of view of the fake pilots, everything was just fine: they were doing a great job, the missing or dubious licenses were just a small formality, and the authorities couldn't force them to do anything...
  - t0mas88 6y ago
    That training would probably fail. I've seen a few licensed pilots with a real license from a country that isn't ICAO standard (and I'm going to guess Pakistan is like that as well) sit in flight training. They didn't do very well, lots of bad habits, not a very enthusiastic attitude towards a training they think they don't need.
    - redis_mlc 6y ago
      > Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? Well, that training costs close to $100,000, takes up to 2 years, the fake pilots would have to pass several written, practical and medical tests. > They didn't do very well In Asian culture, staff only get promoted (one-way up) over time. So the concept of failing one of your pilots is a hard sell for local examiners - it would be scandalous behavior to flunk their sim ride. S. Korea rotates in US CFIs until they find compliant ones that will endorse, otherwise they're sent back to the US. Or they just use locals to rubber-stamp logbooks. One of the few recent US airline accidents was the SFO Asiana crash, which is the poster child for "not doing very well." (although why SFO turns off their ILS all the time is bizarre.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214

albntomat0 6y ago

It's concerning that they have such a specific number of pilots with fake licenses. It's not like this is something surprising that they're rushing to respond to, at least that's the impression I got from the article.

not2b 6y ago
If the issue is that someone else is taking tests for the fakers, how do they know who's a faker? They could flag the obviously incompetent people for extra testing, and possibly some of them have been informed on, but how do they know precisely who is a faker? Some of the pilots have a military background (flew for the air force) so those can be presumed to be real pilots, but the rest?
- VBprogrammer 6y ago
  I hope against hope that when they say they don't have a licence we're talking about something less egregious than 'never had any formal training as a pilot'. Something like didn't bother getting a type rating for the specific aircraft type or failed to renew their licence at the correct point.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    > If the issue is that someone else is taking tests for the fakers, how do they know who's a faker? I can only talk about what I've heard in India. 1) No test is done. An official with access to blanks just prints another one for $1,000. The govt. could match up tests with the complete list of pilots with authorized licenses and get an exact count. 2) An impostor does the written and practical (flying) tests. This is common in IT also.

NelsonMinar 6y ago

I love the confidence they express in knowing all the pilots with fake licenses.

konschubert 6y ago
“It’s okay, we’ve made illegal stuff illegal now”
adrianmonk 6y ago
I haven't checked, but is the original comment even in English? It could be translated, in which case I would not read too much into the tone.
syshum 6y ago
I am sure they posted a Letter in all the airports "Do you have a Fake Lic. DO NOT FLY ;) "

ckozlowski 6y ago

I saw this too. This is one of the most nonsensical statements I've ever heard. I don't even know where to begin with this one.

abdullahkhalids 6y ago

It is a power issue. Everyone was aware, but the remaining pilots refused to let the authorities do anything. The only reason this is happening is because of Covid-19. No flights, so pilots can't threaten to boycott flying. Let's see if the authorities have enough political capital to follow through with firing them all.

rob74 6y ago
I assume it was only "everyone" inside the airline? Because if I as a potential passenger knew that 30% of pilots in my country were flying with fake licenses, I wouldn't set foot in another plane...
SamuelAdams 6y ago
Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? If they really do need the pilots that badly, and the fake pilots demonstrate an interest in the job, why not just pay for their flight training directly and keep them grounded until that training is complete?
- rob74 6y ago
  I think you misunderstand the situation. From the point of view of the fake pilots, everything was just fine: they were doing a great job, the missing or dubious licenses were just a small formality, and the authorities couldn't force them to do anything...
- t0mas88 6y ago
  That training would probably fail. I've seen a few licensed pilots with a real license from a country that isn't ICAO standard (and I'm going to guess Pakistan is like that as well) sit in flight training. They didn't do very well, lots of bad habits, not a very enthusiastic attitude towards a training they think they don't need.
  - redis_mlc 6y ago
    > Couldn't these companies just sponsor the pilots to complete their pilot training program? Well, that training costs close to $100,000, takes up to 2 years, the fake pilots would have to pass several written, practical and medical tests. > They didn't do very well In Asian culture, staff only get promoted (one-way up) over time. So the concept of failing one of your pilots is a hard sell for local examiners - it would be scandalous behavior to flunk their sim ride. S. Korea rotates in US CFIs until they find compliant ones that will endorse, otherwise they're sent back to the US. Or they just use locals to rubber-stamp logbooks. One of the few recent US airline accidents was the SFO Asiana crash, which is the poster child for "not doing very well." (although why SFO turns off their ILS all the time is bizarre.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asiana_Airlines_Flight_214