5 ms·

I'm not a fan of Assange and I think the allegations in Sweden were credible. But what is currently happening to him is beyond unjust.

by pell 6y ago

lambdaba 6y ago
Why do you think they are? I ask because I haven't researched beyond the initial news stories.
- notkaiho 6y ago
  Aren't the initial news stories credible?
  - Ygg2 6y ago
    Aren't the news dead silent in regards to that accusation? Moment US raised its charges, the Sweden rape case is nowhere to be found. Not to mention, Assanage agreed to that investigation if they could guarantee not to be extradited to US.
    - input_sh 6y ago
      That's because Sweden allegations are discontinued. Quick time frame of the latest development: 2017-05-19: Suspended investigation, revoked arrest warrant. Statement that the investigation can be resumed if Assange visited Sweden before August 2020. 2019-04-11: Case re-opened following his arrest. In September of this year 7 new witnesses were revealed. 2019-11-19: Investigation discontinued, stating "the evidence is not strong enough to form the basis for filing an indictment", adding that "the evidence has weakened considerably due to the long period of time that has elapsed", but the prosecutor was still confident in the complainant. I personally believe that he's guilty due to the sheer amount of witnesses, but that circumstances around it will result in the victims never achieving justice.
      - chmod775 6y ago
        > I personally believe that he's guilty due to the sheer amount of witnesses Yeah because the Swedish police is totally credible at this point. So this is what we know of the first woman who went to the police, according to the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Nils Melzer, starting this whole charade: - There were no rape allegations. She described the sexual intercourse as consensual. Instead she was worried Assange may have HIV and asked whether the police could force him to take a test. - Instead, and for no apparent reason, police try to pressure her into accusing Assange of rape. She refuses. She also refuses to sign the interrogation transcript created by the police. - Finally, and emotionally exhausted, she goes home and writes one of her friends a SMS: "I don't want to report him. I just want him to take a test, but police want to get him for rape." and the next day: "Police is fabricating this." - Then, that very next night, newspaper are already calling Assange a rapist. Another fun tidbit: - Some time later Swedish police was ready to come to the UK to interrogate Assange, but was asked not to by the UK. - Also Swedish police was worried because their highest court wanted them to either charge him or drop the case, and was told by the UK: "Don't get cold feet now." Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kha_5G70pi0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kha_5G70pi0
  - mellosouls 6y ago
    The ones that were curiously timed with the US wanting him brought to heel for wikileaks? The ones that were curiously dropped late last year when extradition from Sweden was no longer needed? I don't know Assange, and don't find him a likeable character from the reports I've read, and don't think much of wikileaks and its lack of filtering, but the whole Assange sexual assault allegations case stinks.
  - tomp 6y ago
    No, there weren't any initial allegations in the first place. The "raped" (not really) women only went to the police to force Assange get an STD test - even they didn't consider themselves victims!
- nkurz 6y ago
  A quick example might be that during his extradition trial in the UK earlier this year, Assange was kept in a locked glass box, unable to communicate effectively with his legal team: The Armoured Glass Box is an Instrument of Torture https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/03/the-armoured-glass-box-is-an-instrument-of-torture/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/03/the-armoured... If you are up for a deep (and biased) dive, the rest of Craig Murray's daily blog posts from that trial give many more reasons that his treatment might be considered unjust: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-1/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-... https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-2/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-... https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-the-assange-hearing-day-3/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-... https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-four/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-... Murray is definitely a partisan in the camp of Assange, but I think his factual reporting is accurate.
tsimionescu 6y ago
Given that the UN investigation considers that the allegations were not credible, and that the Swedish prosecutors had all the access and precedent they needed to carry on their investigation remotely if they had wanted to, I see much more reason to think they were not credible.
wazoox 6y ago
They were credible until they were revealed as complete fabrications by no other than the UN human rights reporter: https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=17013 https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?N... https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2018/02/13/news/few_documents_many_mysteries_how_our_foia_case_is_unveiling_the_questionable_handling_of_the_julian_assange_case-188758273/ https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2018/02/13/news/few_documen... https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-05-01/why-julian-assange-must-urgently-be-freed.html https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-05-01/why-julia...
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- timmytokyo 6y ago
  This is a highly deceptive description of the UN human rights rapporteur's report. The report claimed nothing about the veracity of the allegations that led to the Swedish investigation. Instead, it objected to the fact that Assange was detained without formal charges being made by the Swedish government. To complain that this report reveals the allegations as "complete fabrications" is in itself a complete fabrication, and you ruin your own credibility by saying it.
  - hedora 6y ago
    The human rights rapporteur published an essay describing his experience investigating the allegations made by Assange’s lawyers. (I don’t have the link handy. It starts with a few paragraphs explaining that he did his best to avoid investigating the matter because it seemed like a politically wrought waste of time. Among other things, he concluded that the investigation conducted by the Swedish government violated many of their own standard procedures in unprecedented ways, and also, at no point did the “accuser” accuse Assange of a crime or attempt to press charges. Apparently, during consensual sex, a condom broke (I think there was slightly more to the story), and she wanted Assange to get an AIDS test. She asked the police if there was any way to compel him to get one. That somehow then escalated (against her wishes) to a rape charge and an extradition battle. So, “complete fabrication” is a slight exaggeration of the situation (the “accuser” exists, but didn’t accuse anyone of a crime). I think the facts more than support the statement that it was a “politically-motivated, fabricated accusation”.
k1m 6y ago
Regarding the allegations, many do not believe they are credible. See for example this comment by the UN's Nils Melzer: > Surely, I thought, Assange must be a rapist! But what I found is that he has never been charged with a sexual offence. True, soon after the United States had encouraged allies to find reasons to prosecute Assange, Swedish prosecution informed the tabloid press that he was suspected of having raped two women. Strangely, however, the women themselves never claimed to have been raped, nor did they intend to report a criminal offence. Go figure. Moreover, the forensic examination of a condom submitted as evidence, supposedly worn and torn during intercourse with Assange, revealed no DNA whatsoever — neither his, nor hers, nor anybody else’s. Go figure again. One woman even texted that she only wanted Assange to take an HIV test, but that the police were “keen on getting their hands on him”. Go figure, once more. Ever since, both Sweden and Britain have done everything to prevent Assange from confronting these allegations without simultaneously having to expose himself to US extradition and, thus, to a show-trial followed by life in jail. His last refuge had been the Ecuadorian Embassy. https://medium.com/@njmelzer/demasking-the-torture-of-julian-assange-b252ffdcb768 https://medium.com/@njmelzer/demasking-the-torture-of-julian...
- JamesBarney 6y ago
  From wikipedia. Two women did accuse him, one of taking off a condom during sex without her consent and the other for having sex with them while she was asleep. > On 20 August 2010, two women, a 26-year-old living in Enköping and a 31-year-old living in Stockholm,[6][7] reported to the Swedish police that Assange had engaged in unprotected sexual activity with them that violated the scope of their consent, also because one woman was asleep in one case.[8][9] The police told them that they could not simply tell Assange to take an STD test, but that their statements would be passed to a prosecutor.[10] > The next day, the case was transferred to Chefsåklagare (Chief Public Prosecutor) Eva Finné. In answer to questions surrounding the incidents, the following day, Finné declared, "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape". However, Karin Rosander from the Swedish Prosecution Authority, said Assange remained suspected of molestation. Police gave no further comment at the time, but continued the investigation.[11] > After learning of the investigation, Assange said, "The charges are without basis and their issue at this moment is deeply disturbing".[12] > The preliminary investigation concerning suspected rape was discontinued by Finné on 25 August,[13] but two days later Claes Borgström, the attorney representing the two women, requested a review of the prosecutor's decision to terminate part of the investigation.[13][14] > On 30 August, Assange was questioned by the Stockholm police regarding the allegations of sexual molestation.[15] He denied the allegations, saying he had consensual sexual encounters with the two women.[12][16][17]

I'm not a fan of Assange and I think the allegations in Sweden were credible. But what is currently happening to him is beyond unjust.

by pell 6y ago

I'm not a fan of Assange and I think the allegations in Sweden were credible. But what is currently happening to him is beyond unjust.

lambdaba 6y ago

Why do you think they are? I ask because I haven't researched beyond the initial news stories.

notkaiho 6y ago
Aren't the initial news stories credible?
- Ygg2 6y ago
  Aren't the news dead silent in regards to that accusation? Moment US raised its charges, the Sweden rape case is nowhere to be found. Not to mention, Assanage agreed to that investigation if they could guarantee not to be extradited to US.
  - input_sh 6y ago
    That's because Sweden allegations are discontinued. Quick time frame of the latest development: 2017-05-19: Suspended investigation, revoked arrest warrant. Statement that the investigation can be resumed if Assange visited Sweden before August 2020. 2019-04-11: Case re-opened following his arrest. In September of this year 7 new witnesses were revealed. 2019-11-19: Investigation discontinued, stating "the evidence is not strong enough to form the basis for filing an indictment", adding that "the evidence has weakened considerably due to the long period of time that has elapsed", but the prosecutor was still confident in the complainant. I personally believe that he's guilty due to the sheer amount of witnesses, but that circumstances around it will result in the victims never achieving justice.
    - chmod775 6y ago
      > I personally believe that he's guilty due to the sheer amount of witnesses Yeah because the Swedish police is totally credible at this point. So this is what we know of the first woman who went to the police, according to the UN Special Rapporteur on Torture Nils Melzer, starting this whole charade: - There were no rape allegations. She described the sexual intercourse as consensual. Instead she was worried Assange may have HIV and asked whether the police could force him to take a test. - Instead, and for no apparent reason, police try to pressure her into accusing Assange of rape. She refuses. She also refuses to sign the interrogation transcript created by the police. - Finally, and emotionally exhausted, she goes home and writes one of her friends a SMS: "I don't want to report him. I just want him to take a test, but police want to get him for rape." and the next day: "Police is fabricating this." - Then, that very next night, newspaper are already calling Assange a rapist. Another fun tidbit: - Some time later Swedish police was ready to come to the UK to interrogate Assange, but was asked not to by the UK. - Also Swedish police was worried because their highest court wanted them to either charge him or drop the case, and was told by the UK: "Don't get cold feet now." Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kha_5G70pi0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kha_5G70pi0
- mellosouls 6y ago
  The ones that were curiously timed with the US wanting him brought to heel for wikileaks? The ones that were curiously dropped late last year when extradition from Sweden was no longer needed? I don't know Assange, and don't find him a likeable character from the reports I've read, and don't think much of wikileaks and its lack of filtering, but the whole Assange sexual assault allegations case stinks.
- tomp 6y ago
  No, there weren't any initial allegations in the first place. The "raped" (not really) women only went to the police to force Assange get an STD test - even they didn't consider themselves victims!
nkurz 6y ago
A quick example might be that during his extradition trial in the UK earlier this year, Assange was kept in a locked glass box, unable to communicate effectively with his legal team: The Armoured Glass Box is an Instrument of Torture https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/03/the-armoured-glass-box-is-an-instrument-of-torture/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/03/the-armoured... If you are up for a deep (and biased) dive, the rest of Craig Murray's daily blog posts from that trial give many more reasons that his treatment might be considered unjust: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-1/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-... https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-2/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-... https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-the-assange-hearing-day-3/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-... https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-the-public-gallery-assange-hearing-day-four/ https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2020/02/your-man-in-... Murray is definitely a partisan in the camp of Assange, but I think his factual reporting is accurate.

tsimionescu 6y ago

Given that the UN investigation considers that the allegations were not credible, and that the Swedish prosecutors had all the access and precedent they needed to carry on their investigation remotely if they had wanted to, I see much more reason to think they were not credible.

wazoox 6y ago

They were credible until they were revealed as complete fabrications by no other than the UN human rights reporter: https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?NewsID=17013 https://www.ohchr.org/EN/NewsEvents/Pages/DisplayNews.aspx?N... https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2018/02/13/news/few_documents_many_mysteries_how_our_foia_case_is_unveiling_the_questionable_handling_of_the_julian_assange_case-188758273/ https://www.repubblica.it/esteri/2018/02/13/news/few_documen... https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-05-01/why-julian-assange-must-urgently-be-freed.html https://english.elpais.com/spanish_news/2020-05-01/why-julia...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
timmytokyo 6y ago
This is a highly deceptive description of the UN human rights rapporteur's report. The report claimed nothing about the veracity of the allegations that led to the Swedish investigation. Instead, it objected to the fact that Assange was detained without formal charges being made by the Swedish government. To complain that this report reveals the allegations as "complete fabrications" is in itself a complete fabrication, and you ruin your own credibility by saying it.
- hedora 6y ago
  The human rights rapporteur published an essay describing his experience investigating the allegations made by Assange’s lawyers. (I don’t have the link handy. It starts with a few paragraphs explaining that he did his best to avoid investigating the matter because it seemed like a politically wrought waste of time. Among other things, he concluded that the investigation conducted by the Swedish government violated many of their own standard procedures in unprecedented ways, and also, at no point did the “accuser” accuse Assange of a crime or attempt to press charges. Apparently, during consensual sex, a condom broke (I think there was slightly more to the story), and she wanted Assange to get an AIDS test. She asked the police if there was any way to compel him to get one. That somehow then escalated (against her wishes) to a rape charge and an extradition battle. So, “complete fabrication” is a slight exaggeration of the situation (the “accuser” exists, but didn’t accuse anyone of a crime). I think the facts more than support the statement that it was a “politically-motivated, fabricated accusation”.

k1m 6y ago

Regarding the allegations, many do not believe they are credible. See for example this comment by the UN's Nils Melzer: > Surely, I thought, Assange must be a rapist! But what I found is that he has never been charged with a sexual offence. True, soon after the United States had encouraged allies to find reasons to prosecute Assange, Swedish prosecution informed the tabloid press that he was suspected of having raped two women. Strangely, however, the women themselves never claimed to have been raped, nor did they intend to report a criminal offence. Go figure. Moreover, the forensic examination of a condom submitted as evidence, supposedly worn and torn during intercourse with Assange, revealed no DNA whatsoever — neither his, nor hers, nor anybody else’s. Go figure again. One woman even texted that she only wanted Assange to take an HIV test, but that the police were “keen on getting their hands on him”. Go figure, once more. Ever since, both Sweden and Britain have done everything to prevent Assange from confronting these allegations without simultaneously having to expose himself to US extradition and, thus, to a show-trial followed by life in jail. His last refuge had been the Ecuadorian Embassy. https://medium.com/@njmelzer/demasking-the-torture-of-julian-assange-b252ffdcb768 https://medium.com/@njmelzer/demasking-the-torture-of-julian...

JamesBarney 6y ago
From wikipedia. Two women did accuse him, one of taking off a condom during sex without her consent and the other for having sex with them while she was asleep. > On 20 August 2010, two women, a 26-year-old living in Enköping and a 31-year-old living in Stockholm,[6][7] reported to the Swedish police that Assange had engaged in unprotected sexual activity with them that violated the scope of their consent, also because one woman was asleep in one case.[8][9] The police told them that they could not simply tell Assange to take an STD test, but that their statements would be passed to a prosecutor.[10] > The next day, the case was transferred to Chefsåklagare (Chief Public Prosecutor) Eva Finné. In answer to questions surrounding the incidents, the following day, Finné declared, "I don't think there is reason to suspect that he has committed rape". However, Karin Rosander from the Swedish Prosecution Authority, said Assange remained suspected of molestation. Police gave no further comment at the time, but continued the investigation.[11] > After learning of the investigation, Assange said, "The charges are without basis and their issue at this moment is deeply disturbing".[12] > The preliminary investigation concerning suspected rape was discontinued by Finné on 25 August,[13] but two days later Claes Borgström, the attorney representing the two women, requested a review of the prosecutor's decision to terminate part of the investigation.[13][14] > On 30 August, Assange was questioned by the Stockholm police regarding the allegations of sexual molestation.[15] He denied the allegations, saying he had consensual sexual encounters with the two women.[12][16][17]