5 ms·

With all the talk of people doing Nazi salutes it seemed like you could open any news story about the counter-protests and you'd see clear evidence of Neo-Nazis

With all the talk of people doing Nazi salutes it seemed like you could open any news story about the counter-protests and you'd see clear evidence of Neo-Nazis but it was anything but, even when people point to videos [0] that are supposed to demonstrate the Nazi salute it's a struggle to even figure out who is supposed to be doing it. Another video [1] of that same scene is even less supportive of the claim of Nazi salutes. The discussion on such videos at the time always devolved into bickering about how strict the salute had to be before it counts on videos that were overwhelmingly of people with one or both arms in the air, closed fist salutes, people literally pointing, stills out of context, etc, on videos that were always accompanied by football chanting. I don't think I saw a single example of a strict or even semi-strict Nazi salute from a couple of days of casually looking up the news on the counter-protests despite every thread having a dozen people that were quick to point out that the protestors were racists doing the Nazi salute. As far as the EDL / Britain First goes, this is literally the first time I'm hearing that the leader of Britain First showed up, it seems like it was drowned out of the news completely. Are there any pictures of said flags or the scale of their involvement? I don't recall seeing any at the time and I can't find any pics at all. Edit: Found one [2], it's of the leader. [0] https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1271763042745925632 https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1271763042745925632 [1] https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1271761377317851136 https://twitter.com/BBCDomC/status/1271761377317851136 [2] https://twitter.com/hopenothate/status/1271772683013931008 https://twitter.com/hopenothate/status/1271772683013931008

DanBC 6y ago
> this is literally the first time I'm hearing that the leader of Britain First showed up It's somewhat frustrating that people who do not know who attended the demonstration are telling me that I'm wrong when I say it was mostly comprised of recognised far right groups. The protests were organised by far right groups such as FLA / DLFA, with calls from people like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and Paul Golding for people to attend. Here's a photo of a Britain First flag: https://twitter.com/harshmallow01/status/1272099528175386625/photo/1 https://twitter.com/harshmallow01/status/1272099528175386625... (This is the un-modified version). Here's Stephen Yaxley Lennon calling on the Football Lads Alliance (a recognised far right leader talking to a recognised far right group) https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2020/06/08/football-hooligans-and-far-right-plan-london-demonstration/ https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2020/06/08/football-hooligans... Here's a right-wing source, describing a right wing PM who calls the protest "racist thuggery". https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/black-lives-matter-protests-london-statues-racism-churchill/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/black-lives-matt...
- notahacker 6y ago
  It was extremely well publicised at the time too: Golding even gave the PA a quote in advance about why he was going, every mainstream media outlet mentioned him in their reports and Twitter throbbed with speculation about whether he was breaching his bail conditions.
  - Aengeuad 6y ago
    Maybe in some circles it was well publicised but in many articles around the time it's nothing more than a single sentence mention, e.g., [0] which is near the bottom, [1] or [2] which are closer to the top but still not really the point of the articles. The Telegraph link from DanBC's post mentions them a few more times for comparison. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53033550 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53033550 [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53031072 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53031072 [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/met-police-condemns-mindless-hooliganism-far-right-protesters-london https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/met-police-con...
- Aengeuad 6y ago
  >telling me that I'm wrong when I say it was mostly comprised of recognised far right groups I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong or that far right groups didn't attend and I'm sorry if it came across that way, I was hesitant to even make a reply for fear it would come across as a defence of groups I'm ideologically opposed to over protests I don't agree with. The only point I wanted to discuss really was the Nazi salutes since 'protestors defending Churchill statue perform Nazi salute' seems to be the sticking point of social commentary on the counter protests, but the supposed video where it happens is questionable. But I'm happy to be proven wrong on that, just like I was the involvement from Britain First which is why I edited the post, so again sorry if it seems like I'm trying to downplay their involvement.

DanBC 6y ago

> this is literally the first time I'm hearing that the leader of Britain First showed up It's somewhat frustrating that people who do not know who attended the demonstration are telling me that I'm wrong when I say it was mostly comprised of recognised far right groups. The protests were organised by far right groups such as FLA / DLFA, with calls from people like Stephen Yaxley-Lennon and Paul Golding for people to attend. Here's a photo of a Britain First flag: https://twitter.com/harshmallow01/status/1272099528175386625/photo/1 https://twitter.com/harshmallow01/status/1272099528175386625... (This is the un-modified version). Here's Stephen Yaxley Lennon calling on the Football Lads Alliance (a recognised far right leader talking to a recognised far right group) https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2020/06/08/football-hooligans-and-far-right-plan-london-demonstration/ https://www.hopenothate.org.uk/2020/06/08/football-hooligans... Here's a right-wing source, describing a right wing PM who calls the protest "racist thuggery". https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/black-lives-matter-protests-london-statues-racism-churchill/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/13/black-lives-matt...

notahacker 6y ago
It was extremely well publicised at the time too: Golding even gave the PA a quote in advance about why he was going, every mainstream media outlet mentioned him in their reports and Twitter throbbed with speculation about whether he was breaching his bail conditions.
- Aengeuad 6y ago
  Maybe in some circles it was well publicised but in many articles around the time it's nothing more than a single sentence mention, e.g., [0] which is near the bottom, [1] or [2] which are closer to the top but still not really the point of the articles. The Telegraph link from DanBC's post mentions them a few more times for comparison. [0] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53033550 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53033550 [1] https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53031072 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-53031072 [2] https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/met-police-condemns-mindless-hooliganism-far-right-protesters-london https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/jun/14/met-police-con...
Aengeuad 6y ago
>telling me that I'm wrong when I say it was mostly comprised of recognised far right groups I'm not trying to tell you that you're wrong or that far right groups didn't attend and I'm sorry if it came across that way, I was hesitant to even make a reply for fear it would come across as a defence of groups I'm ideologically opposed to over protests I don't agree with. The only point I wanted to discuss really was the Nazi salutes since 'protestors defending Churchill statue perform Nazi salute' seems to be the sticking point of social commentary on the counter protests, but the supposed video where it happens is questionable. But I'm happy to be proven wrong on that, just like I was the involvement from Britain First which is why I edited the post, so again sorry if it seems like I'm trying to downplay their involvement.