6 ms·

9 years since last book. I understand that a writer is not a slave. But there's a breach of trust between the author and his readers. Would you start reading a

9 years since last book. I understand that a writer is not a slave. But there's a breach of trust between the author and his readers. Would you start reading a series that you know has no ending? I suppose I would not. I trust the author to end it. I simply don't trust GRM with finishing his saga. He prefers doing other things. Full stop. No insults, nothing illegal. But I won't buy anything else from him.

ThePadawan 6y ago
I personally have read very many fanfictions in the novel length category. I would say that 60% of them were never finished and might not ever be. I'm still happy that I got to read them. Maybe there is less sunk-cost-fallacy given I didn't pay for them. But it's still a given that sometimes, people just die, or move on.
thewhitetulip 6y ago
I have the same feeling. I also remember how rude Neil Gaiman was about fans who were mad at GRRM to not finish the books. Neil was like 'he doesn't owe you anything'. But this was and is patently wrong. We are not seeing TWOW since 9years and the prequels are written, edited and published. The GoT series is finished. the prequel series of night walkers is being announced and the writing has begun. and we are still waiting for TWOW! This is a breach in trust, if not anything else. Sure, he can choose to write or not write anything he wants, but readers are invested in the stories. and it wasn't until the pandemic struck that he actually started to write the books. I just hope that he finishes ADOS too. That way, he'll be free to write whichever prequel he wishes too and we'll be able to read the next 2 books within a few years!
- harperlee 6y ago
  You did not address why "he doesnt owe you anything" is wrong. You just said that you are invested in the story and waiting for long time. Look, if the story was not finished when you started to read, it was your decision, but the author is not obliged to do anything related to a book after publishing it. This is not the first, nor will be the last, story that is left unfinished, and it is not the end of the world. If you need an ending, imagine one! Once the story has been published, it is not solely the authors, you are free to plot and theorize and invent. If later on the author does something different, you did not win or lose anything if your endings match or not.
  - thewhitetulip 6y ago
    > he doesnt owe you anything It is not a binding contract, yes. But it is an unwritten rule to finish the current work of art, don't you agree? Sure, he is not breaking the law or anything like that. But it breaks the trust in the writer, or at least I think so. The reason he is successful is because people read it. Yes, we can imagine the ending. But it is not unfair to those who bought his books.
    - slowmovintarget 6y ago
      There is no social contract for concluding a series. Do I want Jim Butcher to finish the Dresden Files? Oh my, yes. Do I think he owes me more books because I've read all the current ones? Absolutely not. I'll devour the new ones when they come out, but they are treats, luxuries, that I pay for. Jim Butcher owes me nothing. GRRM owes the publisher a finished manuscript if he has an actual legal contract. But that's about it.
      - thewhitetulip 6y ago
        > There is no social contract for concluding a series. I never said there is a social contract. I said that he is breaching the trust in readers. The trust that made him rich and famous in the first place. There is. People bought his first 5 books because he had promised he'd release the 6th and 7th book by 2019 and 2020. If they knew he'd never release them, they'd have not bought it. He is rich and famous because we readers bought his books way before he was famous. if millions wouldn't have bought his books, he'd not have been famous and you wouldn't come here to defend him. We readers, collectively are owed a book, not personally. And the main issue which you ignore is that he is writing prequels upon prequels. That is the main problem I have.
        harperlee 6y ago
        > If they knew he'd never release them, they'd have not bought it. Im sorry but that is ridiculous. People in general dont evaluate that when reading or recommending a book. When only 1 book was written, people read it, loved it and recommended it. As it was: 1 sole book. Not due to a plan to have 6 more books afterwards.
- slowmovintarget 6y ago
  The author wrote the book, you bought it and read it, and hopefully enjoyed it. They don't owe you another book. Who taught you that you were entitled to more? Are you a patron, supporting his way of living, the way things were once upon a time? You would be entitled to the work, in that case. But things don't work that way now. Neil was right.
  - thewhitetulip 6y ago
    > Who taught you that you were entitled to more? First of all, please watch your tone and words. You do not feed me, neither do you give me pocket money. I won't tolerate this holier-than-thou attitude from anyone apart from those who directly pay me money for survival or feed me. > Are you a patron Yes, I (along with millions) bought his books before it was turned into a series, thus making him famous. He'd have been yet another failed author if we hadn't bought his books before he was famous. > supporting his way of living Yeah, millions of people like me bought his book when he wasn't famous, that's the reason he got famous. So we are supporting his way of living. He'd have been yet another failed author if we hadn't bought his books before he was famous. If we hadn't bought his books, he wouldn't have become famous. His books would have flopped and he wouldn't have gotten the HBO contract. Do you see the irony of your message? I am not 'entitled' to his work. I don't abuse him online. Neither do I send him hate mail saying 'GIVE ME THE BOOK'. But I am disappointed that he is not following the unwritten contract of not starting work on a new work without finishing the promised work. You are being quite rude just like Neil. You think that an author can announced 2 books are pending and not work on it for 11yrs and readers should just suck it. This isn't a one off book like what Archer/Deaver writes. IN that case, I would not expect them to write another book. But this was said to be an epic fantasy with 10 books. Of course readers will expect. But the issue isn't that he is writing slow. As a writer, I more than understand that. The issue is, he is writing prequels upon prequels while it seems as if he has abandoned the original books. he is on record saying 'just like LoTR was not JRRM's main work. GoT isn't mine' If he had said so 11yrs ago, I wouldn't have wasted money buying all his books. as would a million others. then he wouldn't have become famous and we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. That being said, I do not like the online hate against him for not finishing the book. I am just privately sad that he is not following his unwritten contract. Of course he doesn't owe anything to me personally. But he does owe to the readers who made him famous.

ThePadawan 6y ago

I personally have read very many fanfictions in the novel length category. I would say that 60% of them were never finished and might not ever be. I'm still happy that I got to read them. Maybe there is less sunk-cost-fallacy given I didn't pay for them. But it's still a given that sometimes, people just die, or move on.

thewhitetulip 6y ago

I have the same feeling. I also remember how rude Neil Gaiman was about fans who were mad at GRRM to not finish the books. Neil was like 'he doesn't owe you anything'. But this was and is patently wrong. We are not seeing TWOW since 9years and the prequels are written, edited and published. The GoT series is finished. the prequel series of night walkers is being announced and the writing has begun. and we are still waiting for TWOW! This is a breach in trust, if not anything else. Sure, he can choose to write or not write anything he wants, but readers are invested in the stories. and it wasn't until the pandemic struck that he actually started to write the books. I just hope that he finishes ADOS too. That way, he'll be free to write whichever prequel he wishes too and we'll be able to read the next 2 books within a few years!

harperlee 6y ago
You did not address why "he doesnt owe you anything" is wrong. You just said that you are invested in the story and waiting for long time. Look, if the story was not finished when you started to read, it was your decision, but the author is not obliged to do anything related to a book after publishing it. This is not the first, nor will be the last, story that is left unfinished, and it is not the end of the world. If you need an ending, imagine one! Once the story has been published, it is not solely the authors, you are free to plot and theorize and invent. If later on the author does something different, you did not win or lose anything if your endings match or not.
- thewhitetulip 6y ago
  > he doesnt owe you anything It is not a binding contract, yes. But it is an unwritten rule to finish the current work of art, don't you agree? Sure, he is not breaking the law or anything like that. But it breaks the trust in the writer, or at least I think so. The reason he is successful is because people read it. Yes, we can imagine the ending. But it is not unfair to those who bought his books.
  - slowmovintarget 6y ago
    There is no social contract for concluding a series. Do I want Jim Butcher to finish the Dresden Files? Oh my, yes. Do I think he owes me more books because I've read all the current ones? Absolutely not. I'll devour the new ones when they come out, but they are treats, luxuries, that I pay for. Jim Butcher owes me nothing. GRRM owes the publisher a finished manuscript if he has an actual legal contract. But that's about it.
    - thewhitetulip 6y ago
      > There is no social contract for concluding a series. I never said there is a social contract. I said that he is breaching the trust in readers. The trust that made him rich and famous in the first place. There is. People bought his first 5 books because he had promised he'd release the 6th and 7th book by 2019 and 2020. If they knew he'd never release them, they'd have not bought it. He is rich and famous because we readers bought his books way before he was famous. if millions wouldn't have bought his books, he'd not have been famous and you wouldn't come here to defend him. We readers, collectively are owed a book, not personally. And the main issue which you ignore is that he is writing prequels upon prequels. That is the main problem I have.
      - harperlee 6y ago
        > If they knew he'd never release them, they'd have not bought it. Im sorry but that is ridiculous. People in general dont evaluate that when reading or recommending a book. When only 1 book was written, people read it, loved it and recommended it. As it was: 1 sole book. Not due to a plan to have 6 more books afterwards.
slowmovintarget 6y ago
The author wrote the book, you bought it and read it, and hopefully enjoyed it. They don't owe you another book. Who taught you that you were entitled to more? Are you a patron, supporting his way of living, the way things were once upon a time? You would be entitled to the work, in that case. But things don't work that way now. Neil was right.
- thewhitetulip 6y ago
  > Who taught you that you were entitled to more? First of all, please watch your tone and words. You do not feed me, neither do you give me pocket money. I won't tolerate this holier-than-thou attitude from anyone apart from those who directly pay me money for survival or feed me. > Are you a patron Yes, I (along with millions) bought his books before it was turned into a series, thus making him famous. He'd have been yet another failed author if we hadn't bought his books before he was famous. > supporting his way of living Yeah, millions of people like me bought his book when he wasn't famous, that's the reason he got famous. So we are supporting his way of living. He'd have been yet another failed author if we hadn't bought his books before he was famous. If we hadn't bought his books, he wouldn't have become famous. His books would have flopped and he wouldn't have gotten the HBO contract. Do you see the irony of your message? I am not 'entitled' to his work. I don't abuse him online. Neither do I send him hate mail saying 'GIVE ME THE BOOK'. But I am disappointed that he is not following the unwritten contract of not starting work on a new work without finishing the promised work. You are being quite rude just like Neil. You think that an author can announced 2 books are pending and not work on it for 11yrs and readers should just suck it. This isn't a one off book like what Archer/Deaver writes. IN that case, I would not expect them to write another book. But this was said to be an epic fantasy with 10 books. Of course readers will expect. But the issue isn't that he is writing slow. As a writer, I more than understand that. The issue is, he is writing prequels upon prequels while it seems as if he has abandoned the original books. he is on record saying 'just like LoTR was not JRRM's main work. GoT isn't mine' If he had said so 11yrs ago, I wouldn't have wasted money buying all his books. as would a million others. then he wouldn't have become famous and we wouldn't be having this conversation in the first place. That being said, I do not like the online hate against him for not finishing the book. I am just privately sad that he is not following his unwritten contract. Of course he doesn't owe anything to me personally. But he does owe to the readers who made him famous.