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> However it can prevent people with "different views" from evangelizing effectively How'd that work out with the Trump election and the massive resurgence of

> However it can prevent people with "different views" from evangelizing effectively How'd that work out with the Trump election and the massive resurgence of outright racism and sexism? How far does one's subjective view of the world around them have to diverge from reality before they stop and think, huh, maybe this doesn't work at all. Silencing dissenting views has never worked in history. Not once. It just increases internal societal pressure until it reaches a critical point and boils over, usually in a physically violent upturn.

uniqueid 6y ago
> Silencing dissenting views has never worked in history There may be a grain of truth to that, but I don't think a historian, even one who agreed with its thrust, would feel comfortable with it as a blanket statement. I don't really want to have this sort of heated debate this evening. Sorry.
- missosoup 6y ago
  It's simple. Name one historical example where this strategy of systemic censorship of an ideology worked and didn't blow back. You can't. There aren't any. It always blows back. America is just failing to learn from a lesson that's been taught to various empires for millennia.
  - uniqueid 6y ago
    You got me! Enjoy your evening :)
  - watwut 6y ago
    > It's simple. Name one historical example where this strategy of systemic censorship of an ideology worked and didn't blow back. It worked majority of the time. It typically stopped to work only when power to be ceased to have power. Both nazism and communism were extremely successful in this. The monarchies did this successfully for very very long time. It ceased to work only when their lost power for unrelated reasons. Saudi Arabia is going strong. The suppression of nazi ideology post WWII did not lead to blow back either.
    - missosoup 6y ago
      > It worked majority of the time. It typically stopped to work only when power to be ceased to have power. Which is to say it has never worked. Because all power structures eventually collapse and yet the ideologies they tried to suppress remain and rise again. And sometimes, it's actually the resurgence of those suppressed ideologies that destroys the established power structures. As is the case in the USA right now. > The suppression of nazi ideology post WWII did not lead to blow back either. You can't be serious. https://www.ft.com/content/dcd4aee8-936f-11e9-aea1-2b1d33ac3271 https://www.ft.com/content/dcd4aee8-936f-11e9-aea1-2b1d33ac3...
      - watwut 6y ago
        By that measure, nothing works ever, because every system dies one day regardless of what they suspend. Such standard is completely useless. Also, "ceased to have power" typically means failure to suppress. That being said, Nazi Germany did not lost because of internally suppressed people raising, they lost because foreign forces won on battle field. They were quite successful in keeping control. > You can't be serious. I am serious. There is nothing to suggest that contemporary German issues have anything to do with post WWII suppression of Nazism. They don't.
  - nmfisher 6y ago
    Mainland China. I’m still convinced that it will eventually implode. But it hasn’t yet, and I may well be wrong.
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uniqueid 6y ago

> Silencing dissenting views has never worked in history There may be a grain of truth to that, but I don't think a historian, even one who agreed with its thrust, would feel comfortable with it as a blanket statement. I don't really want to have this sort of heated debate this evening. Sorry.

missosoup 6y ago
It's simple. Name one historical example where this strategy of systemic censorship of an ideology worked and didn't blow back. You can't. There aren't any. It always blows back. America is just failing to learn from a lesson that's been taught to various empires for millennia.
- uniqueid 6y ago
  You got me! Enjoy your evening :)
- watwut 6y ago
  > It's simple. Name one historical example where this strategy of systemic censorship of an ideology worked and didn't blow back. It worked majority of the time. It typically stopped to work only when power to be ceased to have power. Both nazism and communism were extremely successful in this. The monarchies did this successfully for very very long time. It ceased to work only when their lost power for unrelated reasons. Saudi Arabia is going strong. The suppression of nazi ideology post WWII did not lead to blow back either.
  - missosoup 6y ago
    > It worked majority of the time. It typically stopped to work only when power to be ceased to have power. Which is to say it has never worked. Because all power structures eventually collapse and yet the ideologies they tried to suppress remain and rise again. And sometimes, it's actually the resurgence of those suppressed ideologies that destroys the established power structures. As is the case in the USA right now. > The suppression of nazi ideology post WWII did not lead to blow back either. You can't be serious. https://www.ft.com/content/dcd4aee8-936f-11e9-aea1-2b1d33ac3271 https://www.ft.com/content/dcd4aee8-936f-11e9-aea1-2b1d33ac3...
    - watwut 6y ago
      By that measure, nothing works ever, because every system dies one day regardless of what they suspend. Such standard is completely useless. Also, "ceased to have power" typically means failure to suppress. That being said, Nazi Germany did not lost because of internally suppressed people raising, they lost because foreign forces won on battle field. They were quite successful in keeping control. > You can't be serious. I am serious. There is nothing to suggest that contemporary German issues have anything to do with post WWII suppression of Nazism. They don't.
- nmfisher 6y ago
  Mainland China. I’m still convinced that it will eventually implode. But it hasn’t yet, and I may well be wrong.
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