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“There’s something so true about this genre when done correctly that I will fight anybody that gets in a true practitioner of this art form’s way, because I kno

“There’s something so true about this genre when done correctly that I will fight anybody that gets in a true practitioner of this art form’s way, because I know you’re wrong. This is the truth and you are obstructing it. I’m not talking about the content, I’m talking about the art form.”

mellosouls 6y ago
I love Chappelle - but he's not an angel, and didn't serve the free speech cause well with his personal attack (she took it sportingly) on somebody genuinely brave in speaking off-message.
- guscost 6y ago
  I’m with you that the personal attack was rude, and he likely lost support for his side on that issue by including it. But I don’t agree that the effect extends to lost support for free speech in general. It is commonly understood that rude speech is the most important kind of speech to defend, since it is the “front line” where the forces opposing free speech are most active. Dave is surely aware of this too. He says rude things all the time, probably intentionally, because when documented they become fortifications which are actually harder to break through. I’m pretty sure he has outright declared an intention to get things wrong sometimes, but I can’t find the quote.
  - mellosouls 6y ago
    Sure (and good points), but in the context here - quoting Chappelle on civil discourse and free speech I think it's important to question the consistency when such uncivil jibes are aimed from a position of power at a hate figure.
    - guscost 6y ago
      In context, the phrase “civil discourse” has an alternative meaning that you arrive at by substituting the first dictionary definition of the word “civil”: > 1. relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters. It’s a brilliant argument that works on two levels: violence is the only alternative to free speech, and raw and ugly honesty can lead to greater understanding.
- augustt 6y ago
  I would not call it bravery. She started her career as an anti-conservative blogger and then realized there was money to be made in being conservatives' token minority friend.
  - mellosouls 6y ago
    The nicest names she gets called are things like "conservatives' token minority friend". Whatever else she is, she's damned brave.
    - augustt 6y ago
      No, Candace "if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine" Owens is not brave because she gets called out for being a sack of shit.
  - syshum 6y ago
    That is somewhat revisionist I would say, She was cancelled by the left like many have been over the years, because while she was "anti-conservative" (though not really) she was far more moderate than the Extreme Authoritarian left accepts
    - nl 6y ago
      You don't find it slightly ironic that you are defending her when she was "cancelled" for setting up a website with the express purpose of doxxing people who didn't want to be identified?[1] I think it was you who claimed this on the Scott Alexander story: > One of the biggest problems in modern society is the lack of respect for privacy and anonymous speech. anonymous speech has been a cornerstone of the advancement of civilization many times through out history including playing a critical role in the formation of the United States as well as the US Constitution It seems to me that she was criticised by the left (and many on the right!) for attempting to start a pretty distasteful service. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Owens#Privacy_violation,_Gamergate,_and_political_transformation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Owens#Privacy_violatio...

mellosouls 6y ago

I love Chappelle - but he's not an angel, and didn't serve the free speech cause well with his personal attack (she took it sportingly) on somebody genuinely brave in speaking off-message.

guscost 6y ago
I’m with you that the personal attack was rude, and he likely lost support for his side on that issue by including it. But I don’t agree that the effect extends to lost support for free speech in general. It is commonly understood that rude speech is the most important kind of speech to defend, since it is the “front line” where the forces opposing free speech are most active. Dave is surely aware of this too. He says rude things all the time, probably intentionally, because when documented they become fortifications which are actually harder to break through. I’m pretty sure he has outright declared an intention to get things wrong sometimes, but I can’t find the quote.
- mellosouls 6y ago
  Sure (and good points), but in the context here - quoting Chappelle on civil discourse and free speech I think it's important to question the consistency when such uncivil jibes are aimed from a position of power at a hate figure.
  - guscost 6y ago
    In context, the phrase “civil discourse” has an alternative meaning that you arrive at by substituting the first dictionary definition of the word “civil”: > 1. relating to ordinary citizens and their concerns, as distinct from military or ecclesiastical matters. It’s a brilliant argument that works on two levels: violence is the only alternative to free speech, and raw and ugly honesty can lead to greater understanding.
augustt 6y ago
I would not call it bravery. She started her career as an anti-conservative blogger and then realized there was money to be made in being conservatives' token minority friend.
- mellosouls 6y ago
  The nicest names she gets called are things like "conservatives' token minority friend". Whatever else she is, she's damned brave.
  - augustt 6y ago
    No, Candace "if Hitler just wanted to make Germany great and have things run well, OK, fine" Owens is not brave because she gets called out for being a sack of shit.
- syshum 6y ago
  That is somewhat revisionist I would say, She was cancelled by the left like many have been over the years, because while she was "anti-conservative" (though not really) she was far more moderate than the Extreme Authoritarian left accepts
  - nl 6y ago
    You don't find it slightly ironic that you are defending her when she was "cancelled" for setting up a website with the express purpose of doxxing people who didn't want to be identified?[1] I think it was you who claimed this on the Scott Alexander story: > One of the biggest problems in modern society is the lack of respect for privacy and anonymous speech. anonymous speech has been a cornerstone of the advancement of civilization many times through out history including playing a critical role in the formation of the United States as well as the US Constitution It seems to me that she was criticised by the left (and many on the right!) for attempting to start a pretty distasteful service. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Owens#Privacy_violation,_Gamergate,_and_political_transformation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Candace_Owens#Privacy_violatio...