8 ms·

So I read how they get their data which is from city court systems that allow their data to be extracted programmatically. Then I wondered why dont we just put

by hpoe 6y ago

So I read how they get their data which is from city court systems that allow their data to be extracted programmatically. Then I wondered why dont we just put in the effort to standardize on a common data format and start making government info available across multiple levels of government. I mean most government forms could be replaced with a pretty simple html form. Then I realized how many people would fight till their last dying breath to keep that data from coming to life to prevent the exposure of their crimes. And I don't just mean high level national officials but the thousands of county and municipal people all across the country that have their little practically harmless side graft going on.

jasonjayr 6y ago
I'm gonna spam out my new favorite quote from a week ago "When you get the data into a nice, clean, dense form, stuff just falls out of it" - Saul Pwanson (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-plagiarism-scandal-is-unfolding-in-the-crossword-world/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-plagiarism-scandal-is...)
- randycupertino 6y ago
  > A Plagiarism Scandal Is Unfolding In The Crossword World Huh! I recently "discovered" this myself because sometimes when I was stuck on crosswords I would google the clue and the answers would show all the different places and puzzles the clue has appeared. I just assumed that all crosswords everywhere sourced the same question databank and everyone stole clues and reprinted them everywhere else based on how many times they've appeared in various places. Didn't realize crosswords were even supposed to be originally written! Fwiw, have been more into NYTimes Tiles games lately :) Interesting link- thnx!
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- coolgeek 6y ago
  That article was from four years ago. More importantly, prior to clicking on the article, I would have bet a lot of money that Saul Pwanson was Paul Swanson's Twitter handle.
  - jasonjayr 6y ago
    Yes; I found it via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23506663 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23506663 from last week here ...
thephyber 6y ago
> Then I realized how many people would fight till their last dying breath to keep that data from coming to life to prevent the exposure of their crimes. Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" I find it far more likely that government buracracies like court systems simply don't spend the money or have the expertise rather than are in a USA-wide cabal against opening their data (when the data is already available in small amounts).
- elliekelly 6y ago
  You should go sit through a day in housing court when it opens up again. The first time I went to housing court was literally life changing. The injustice was eye opening. It’s probably the single event that switched me from Republican to Democrat because I spent my whole life thinking “the system” was fair and reasonable until I saw the system in action.
  - chrisco255 6y ago
    Have you ever tried being a landlord?
    - elliekelly 6y ago
      Yes, it was a massive pain in the ass and for me, personally, I wasn’t compensated enough to make the transaction/relationship worth my time. So I stopped renting. Landlords can opt out of the rental market if they aren’t earning enough. Tenants have no such luxury.
      - chrisco255 6y ago
        They can't just opt out. Landlords have mortgages to pay, employees to pay, maintenance, insurance, utilities, etc that they're responsible for, capital expenditures on the property itself.
        mikeyouse 6y ago
czbond 6y ago
I've tried parsing legal data before, and it was difficult to have common formats even between counties in a state. At the time I wasn't sure it would even scale well. I wonder how many counties they extracted.
pyuser583 6y ago
Standardizing administrative and legal info is insanely complicated. Hearings are scheduled, then canceled. Rulings are overturned. Jurisdictions change. Documents are sent across jurisdictions. Event logging and functional system design help a lot, but they have all sorts of problems too. Don’t forget privacy! The people who lose the most from publicizing eviction info are the ones being evicted. They’d never be able to rent again. That’s why many jurisdictions seal eviction info.
- fractal618 6y ago
  But it's the right thing to do. It's necessary. No one else is going to do it. We have to start small. Focus on local politics. Look for neighbors with signs in their yard. Take note of who's voting for who. Build a like minded network. A lot of people focus on the issue of abortion because it's the most linked issue to Democrat/republican. Animal testing is actually the most divisive issue. And it's not correlated with Democrat/republican. It's the perfect topic to create bipartisan relationships. But start with very very local issues. I need to practice what I preach
  - pyuser583 6y ago
    What? You want a political movement based on requiring municipalities to use standards that don’t exist and WILL DESTROY PEOPLES LIVES? Most people appearing in court don’t want the contents of their proceedings made public. This isn’t political at all. It’s isn’t practical or advisable enough to be political. Just look at the World Wide Web. It’s like that, but more complicated. A very good friend of mine is a legal librarian. She has more formal education than a doctor. Peoples lives depend on her doing her job, and it’s hard as heck. This isn’t something you can automate away. The info systems are complicated because the domain is complicated. Imagine: person A and person B create a partnership in the Cayman Islands. However they agree any disputes between the London Commercial Court. Do I even need to continue?
- yardie 6y ago
  If it’s sealed than why am I paying a $150 application fee to prove I’ve never been evicted?
say_it_as_it_is 6y ago
It's a matter of accountability and job protection. Government only grows. It never reduces staff through efficiency exercises. The more that administrative services are automated, the fewer administrators that will be required. Cutting budgets is an exercise for the private sector, not government. Try running for office on a platform that includes modernisation and you'll discover who actually votes in America.
- pnutjam 6y ago
  Untrue. I've worked in Government, private sector, and nonprofit. All can be managed atrociously, and all can be managed well. In my experience, fiefdoms and graft are much more common in the private sector. Nobody can be voted out or replaced when their boss is voted out. Nobody even cares as long as the long term profits are ok.
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

by hpoe 6y ago

jasonjayr 6y ago

I'm gonna spam out my new favorite quote from a week ago "When you get the data into a nice, clean, dense form, stuff just falls out of it" - Saul Pwanson (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-plagiarism-scandal-is-unfolding-in-the-crossword-world/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/a-plagiarism-scandal-is...)

randycupertino 6y ago
> A Plagiarism Scandal Is Unfolding In The Crossword World Huh! I recently "discovered" this myself because sometimes when I was stuck on crosswords I would google the clue and the answers would show all the different places and puzzles the clue has appeared. I just assumed that all crosswords everywhere sourced the same question databank and everyone stole clues and reprinted them everywhere else based on how many times they've appeared in various places. Didn't realize crosswords were even supposed to be originally written! Fwiw, have been more into NYTimes Tiles games lately :) Interesting link- thnx!
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
coolgeek 6y ago
That article was from four years ago. More importantly, prior to clicking on the article, I would have bet a lot of money that Saul Pwanson was Paul Swanson's Twitter handle.
- jasonjayr 6y ago
  Yes; I found it via https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23506663 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=23506663 from last week here ...

thephyber 6y ago

> Then I realized how many people would fight till their last dying breath to keep that data from coming to life to prevent the exposure of their crimes. Hanlon's Razor: "Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" I find it far more likely that government buracracies like court systems simply don't spend the money or have the expertise rather than are in a USA-wide cabal against opening their data (when the data is already available in small amounts).

elliekelly 6y ago
You should go sit through a day in housing court when it opens up again. The first time I went to housing court was literally life changing. The injustice was eye opening. It’s probably the single event that switched me from Republican to Democrat because I spent my whole life thinking “the system” was fair and reasonable until I saw the system in action.
- chrisco255 6y ago
  Have you ever tried being a landlord?
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    Yes, it was a massive pain in the ass and for me, personally, I wasn’t compensated enough to make the transaction/relationship worth my time. So I stopped renting. Landlords can opt out of the rental market if they aren’t earning enough. Tenants have no such luxury.
    - chrisco255 6y ago
      They can't just opt out. Landlords have mortgages to pay, employees to pay, maintenance, insurance, utilities, etc that they're responsible for, capital expenditures on the property itself.
      - mikeyouse 6y ago

czbond 6y ago

I've tried parsing legal data before, and it was difficult to have common formats even between counties in a state. At the time I wasn't sure it would even scale well. I wonder how many counties they extracted.

pyuser583 6y ago

Standardizing administrative and legal info is insanely complicated. Hearings are scheduled, then canceled. Rulings are overturned. Jurisdictions change. Documents are sent across jurisdictions. Event logging and functional system design help a lot, but they have all sorts of problems too. Don’t forget privacy! The people who lose the most from publicizing eviction info are the ones being evicted. They’d never be able to rent again. That’s why many jurisdictions seal eviction info.

fractal618 6y ago
But it's the right thing to do. It's necessary. No one else is going to do it. We have to start small. Focus on local politics. Look for neighbors with signs in their yard. Take note of who's voting for who. Build a like minded network. A lot of people focus on the issue of abortion because it's the most linked issue to Democrat/republican. Animal testing is actually the most divisive issue. And it's not correlated with Democrat/republican. It's the perfect topic to create bipartisan relationships. But start with very very local issues. I need to practice what I preach
- pyuser583 6y ago
  What? You want a political movement based on requiring municipalities to use standards that don’t exist and WILL DESTROY PEOPLES LIVES? Most people appearing in court don’t want the contents of their proceedings made public. This isn’t political at all. It’s isn’t practical or advisable enough to be political. Just look at the World Wide Web. It’s like that, but more complicated. A very good friend of mine is a legal librarian. She has more formal education than a doctor. Peoples lives depend on her doing her job, and it’s hard as heck. This isn’t something you can automate away. The info systems are complicated because the domain is complicated. Imagine: person A and person B create a partnership in the Cayman Islands. However they agree any disputes between the London Commercial Court. Do I even need to continue?
yardie 6y ago
If it’s sealed than why am I paying a $150 application fee to prove I’ve never been evicted?

say_it_as_it_is 6y ago

It's a matter of accountability and job protection. Government only grows. It never reduces staff through efficiency exercises. The more that administrative services are automated, the fewer administrators that will be required. Cutting budgets is an exercise for the private sector, not government. Try running for office on a platform that includes modernisation and you'll discover who actually votes in America.

pnutjam 6y ago
Untrue. I've worked in Government, private sector, and nonprofit. All can be managed atrociously, and all can be managed well. In my experience, fiefdoms and graft are much more common in the private sector. Nobody can be voted out or replaced when their boss is voted out. Nobody even cares as long as the long term profits are ok.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]