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The walled garden does no such thing. Either iOS is secure or it's not. if it's secure there is no need for the walled garden. Let me run anything and trust it

The walled garden does no such thing. Either iOS is secure or it's not. if it's secure there is no need for the walled garden. Let me run anything and trust its security. If it's not secure then the walled garden is security theater because it's trivial for any app to hide its true intent.

jetpks 6y ago
> Either iOS is secure or it's not This is flat out wrong. Security isn't binary.
- greggman3 6y ago
  It's not wrong. Browsers don't have a walled garden. They just try to be secure period. Apple's fictions is their walled garden saves you from bad apps. It doesn't. There have been and will be plenty of bad apps. A secure platform saves you from bad apps, period.
  - SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
    You're both right. The walled garden has nothing to do with security, AND security isn't binary.
    - rimliu 6y ago
      So walls and fences have nothing to do with security? Interesting. I will even say, world-shattering news.
      - VonGallifrey 6y ago
        Yes. First of because "walled garden" is just a metaphor for the type of system the App store represents and Second if you have "walls and fences" but with an open door where everyone can enter if they Pay 30% of their revenue then those walls are there for revenue generation and not for security.
  - rimjongun 6y ago
    Again, you speak in this world of binary absolutes. Passionate, but clearly not an experienced security practitioner. “A secure platform saves you from bad apps, period” How did you come to this statement? Because my initial reaction is not a flattering one for you, but hey, I’m learning too and I find this topic super interesting. Could you provide an example of a secure platform securing against threats in such an absolute way? Maybe QubesOS? I’d like to hear your reasoning a bit more. Also, I want to touch on your statement of browsers not having walled gardens, and being secure in a general sense. Are you under the impression that modern browsers are equivalent to all other kinds of apps in regards to their threat profile? Also, are you aware that most modern browsers phone home URLs to check against a malicious site list? I look at this as “walled-garden lite” Personally, I keep flip flopping between MacOS, Windows 10 with WSL2 + Fedora, and a 8GB RPI 4B, which for the last few days has been doing ok for a desktop. My point? The security vs freedom debate is complicated, and for many, rages back and fourth even in the same person. There are very few absolutes in this world. Save your hills to die on for points you KNOW you’re right about, because in this, you’re waaaaaaay off base.
- LordDragonfang 6y ago
  The point of the comment isn't to claim security is binary, but rather that if we're making a distinction between "secure" or "not secure", the walled garden contributes nothing to the distinction.
rimjongun 6y ago
“Either iOS is secure or it’s not” You must not be up on security, and that’s cool, we all have stuff to learn. So let’s define our terms a little bit. What is our walled garden and what does it bring to the table in terms of security? Off the top of my head I’m thinking we get more eyes during the review process, maybe some static/malware analysis, etc.. Another thing is the “soft controls”, not allowing certain classes of apps that Apple doesn’t feel “belong” in their garden. Well that’s a net security benefit too. Less apps, less possibility of exposure, more careful and selective choosing of apps allowed, you’re going to see less shady stuff and abuse. Compare the two app stores, it’s not even close. So the security benefits of a tight review/control process are pretty clear, and play out in the results of malware outbreaks between Google and Apples app stores. The question of trading freedom for security is another topic, one that cuts deep into the fabric of western society. Too deep for this convo!

jetpks 6y ago

> Either iOS is secure or it's not This is flat out wrong. Security isn't binary.

greggman3 6y ago
It's not wrong. Browsers don't have a walled garden. They just try to be secure period. Apple's fictions is their walled garden saves you from bad apps. It doesn't. There have been and will be plenty of bad apps. A secure platform saves you from bad apps, period.
- SAI_Peregrinus 6y ago
  You're both right. The walled garden has nothing to do with security, AND security isn't binary.
  - rimliu 6y ago
    So walls and fences have nothing to do with security? Interesting. I will even say, world-shattering news.
    - VonGallifrey 6y ago
      Yes. First of because "walled garden" is just a metaphor for the type of system the App store represents and Second if you have "walls and fences" but with an open door where everyone can enter if they Pay 30% of their revenue then those walls are there for revenue generation and not for security.
- rimjongun 6y ago
  Again, you speak in this world of binary absolutes. Passionate, but clearly not an experienced security practitioner. “A secure platform saves you from bad apps, period” How did you come to this statement? Because my initial reaction is not a flattering one for you, but hey, I’m learning too and I find this topic super interesting. Could you provide an example of a secure platform securing against threats in such an absolute way? Maybe QubesOS? I’d like to hear your reasoning a bit more. Also, I want to touch on your statement of browsers not having walled gardens, and being secure in a general sense. Are you under the impression that modern browsers are equivalent to all other kinds of apps in regards to their threat profile? Also, are you aware that most modern browsers phone home URLs to check against a malicious site list? I look at this as “walled-garden lite” Personally, I keep flip flopping between MacOS, Windows 10 with WSL2 + Fedora, and a 8GB RPI 4B, which for the last few days has been doing ok for a desktop. My point? The security vs freedom debate is complicated, and for many, rages back and fourth even in the same person. There are very few absolutes in this world. Save your hills to die on for points you KNOW you’re right about, because in this, you’re waaaaaaay off base.
LordDragonfang 6y ago
The point of the comment isn't to claim security is binary, but rather that if we're making a distinction between "secure" or "not secure", the walled garden contributes nothing to the distinction.

rimjongun 6y ago

“Either iOS is secure or it’s not” You must not be up on security, and that’s cool, we all have stuff to learn. So let’s define our terms a little bit. What is our walled garden and what does it bring to the table in terms of security? Off the top of my head I’m thinking we get more eyes during the review process, maybe some static/malware analysis, etc.. Another thing is the “soft controls”, not allowing certain classes of apps that Apple doesn’t feel “belong” in their garden. Well that’s a net security benefit too. Less apps, less possibility of exposure, more careful and selective choosing of apps allowed, you’re going to see less shady stuff and abuse. Compare the two app stores, it’s not even close. So the security benefits of a tight review/control process are pretty clear, and play out in the results of malware outbreaks between Google and Apples app stores. The question of trading freedom for security is another topic, one that cuts deep into the fabric of western society. Too deep for this convo!