4 ms·

My very first apartment in Boston was on the fourth floor of an old building and management controlled (and paid for) the heat. The building was so inefficient

My very first apartment in Boston was on the fourth floor of an old building and management controlled (and paid for) the heat. The building was so inefficient that in order to heat the lower floors to a temperature just barely above freezing my unit would regularly be 85 degrees or more with the windows wide open. I’ll never forget my first big winter storm thinking I was going to die of heat stroke because I had to shut the windows to keep the snow from blowing in. Some people on my floor would leave their window unit air conditioners in year-round to counteract the heat. It was so wasteful and almost no one in the building had a comfortable temperature in their apartment all because it was cheaper/easier for management to just keep burning a ton of oil instead of investing in a bit of insulation.

nhf 6y ago
A lot of the winter overheating comes from poorly insulated pipes, unmaintained steam valves, and broken radiator controls. I lived in Boston for a few years and had the same issue in my first spot - old apartment complex, big boiler in the basement, and way too hot in the winter. Afterwards, I moved to a nicer but even older building where the landlord had bothered to retrofit a modern boiler with separate heating zones for the different apartments. Crucially, the radiators had new control valves the lines had modern insulation. It was like night and day. I think the retrofit cost over $10k, so like you said, the path of least resistance is often crappy heat.
- milesvp 6y ago
  This. There was a great video posted on HN a couple years ago, by one of the few guys around who tunes up these old radiator systems. Apparently a lot of them were quite genius in design, but years of neglect make them not work very well. Was a fascinating video to hear him talk about common problems, and the amount of troubleshooting and problem solving involved with making these radiator systems work as designed again. Dan Holohan, for those interested. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18430512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18430512
  - elliekelly 6y ago
    What a cool video and thread! Thanks for sharing! Sometimes I wish HN had a “random old thread” button like Wikipedia so people could stumble upon the hidden discussion gems like this one.
im3w1l 6y ago
Should have connected the hot side of your ac to the first floor lol.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
>It was so wasteful and almost no one in the building had a comfortable temperature in their apartment all because it was cheaper/easier for management to just keep burning a ton of oil instead of investing in a bit of insulation. Making old housing stock efficient at scale is fundamentally incompatible with the laws in MA (local as well as state) that make it possible to both make incremental improvements as budget allows and be on the right side of the law. People suffer through expensive old utility systems because they can't do X without hiring a licenses pro who can't do Y without pulling a permit and the town won't grant a permit for Y unless Z that has to be touched do do Y is brought up to modern code at the same time which would be fundamentally incompatible (usually for cost reasons) with the goal of the work. Incremental improvement is more or less disallowed by law or at least massively dis-incentivized. You either have the cash to completely renovate a building and put all new everything in or you do nothing.
- elliekelly 6y ago
  That’s true, and I’ve suffered from the same problem when I later bought a home in Southie built in the 1870s. Just replacing the water heater was thousands of dollars. In the case of my first apartment though I know for a fact my landlord had more than enough cash to update the building if she wanted to - her husband owns the Red Sox.

nhf 6y ago

A lot of the winter overheating comes from poorly insulated pipes, unmaintained steam valves, and broken radiator controls. I lived in Boston for a few years and had the same issue in my first spot - old apartment complex, big boiler in the basement, and way too hot in the winter. Afterwards, I moved to a nicer but even older building where the landlord had bothered to retrofit a modern boiler with separate heating zones for the different apartments. Crucially, the radiators had new control valves the lines had modern insulation. It was like night and day. I think the retrofit cost over $10k, so like you said, the path of least resistance is often crappy heat.

milesvp 6y ago
This. There was a great video posted on HN a couple years ago, by one of the few guys around who tunes up these old radiator systems. Apparently a lot of them were quite genius in design, but years of neglect make them not work very well. Was a fascinating video to hear him talk about common problems, and the amount of troubleshooting and problem solving involved with making these radiator systems work as designed again. Dan Holohan, for those interested. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18430512 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=18430512
- elliekelly 6y ago
  What a cool video and thread! Thanks for sharing! Sometimes I wish HN had a “random old thread” button like Wikipedia so people could stumble upon the hidden discussion gems like this one.

im3w1l 6y ago

Should have connected the hot side of your ac to the first floor lol.

throwaway0a5e 6y ago

>It was so wasteful and almost no one in the building had a comfortable temperature in their apartment all because it was cheaper/easier for management to just keep burning a ton of oil instead of investing in a bit of insulation. Making old housing stock efficient at scale is fundamentally incompatible with the laws in MA (local as well as state) that make it possible to both make incremental improvements as budget allows and be on the right side of the law. People suffer through expensive old utility systems because they can't do X without hiring a licenses pro who can't do Y without pulling a permit and the town won't grant a permit for Y unless Z that has to be touched do do Y is brought up to modern code at the same time which would be fundamentally incompatible (usually for cost reasons) with the goal of the work. Incremental improvement is more or less disallowed by law or at least massively dis-incentivized. You either have the cash to completely renovate a building and put all new everything in or you do nothing.

elliekelly 6y ago
That’s true, and I’ve suffered from the same problem when I later bought a home in Southie built in the 1870s. Just replacing the water heater was thousands of dollars. In the case of my first apartment though I know for a fact my landlord had more than enough cash to update the building if she wanted to - her husband owns the Red Sox.