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Yeah, man, this looks like a beefed-up version of Excel macros Anyone who can write working spreadsheet macros could probably just learn to actually program.

by VRay 6y ago

Yeah, man, this looks like a beefed-up version of Excel macros Anyone who can write working spreadsheet macros could probably just learn to actually program. Maybe they aren't going to be making the next RTX Voice or proving P=NP, but I'll bet they could crank out some CRUD

odshoifsdhfs 6y ago
I did a lot of customer interviews. And I mean a lot. People that are good at using Excel (as in, not just create a table with data, but know how to use it, do macros, pivots, etc), if the need arrives they just move up the chain to Access/Filemaker. I would say Excel is their gateway drug to coding. Maybe now they will move to Honeycode perhaps (if the UI is ok) The ones that can't use Excel past putting =A1+A2*0.2 can't use most of the no code tools. But they can use a more visual approach to programming. This is the market I believe will/is exploding as more and more, pretty much everything requires a computer/app, but the customisation for each specific case isn't there. They require a more Lego like approach to 'software' development. For me, that is the NO-CODE definition.
- IggleSniggle 6y ago
  Call me crazy, but with all the high-level language features in most of the commonly used languages of today, combined with the depth of rich IDE tooling for those languages, we already exist in a no-code world.
  - odshoifsdhfs 6y ago
    Yes and no. Maybe you have better examples of programming languages, but even Ruby/Rails, Python, etc have concepts that make sense for programmers that non programmers don't grasp. Think of it this way, if you give a good designer the Rails Book (or another one), he may be able to do something after a few weeks that may match (but very crudely) the app he thought off. Now give the same designer Sketch/Figma, but allow him to sprinkle some logic in ready made blocks (if/elses, loops, save object, etc) and he will get much closer to what he wanted. Is the second approach better? Well most programmers will scream at the database model, etc. For the designer, he did in 2-3 days what would take him weeks and get away with something better. I think a lot of programmers look at their experience and think 'no-code' will never work, but (where my experience comes) 20+ years of doing software development as a consultant, what I found is 80-90% of most software share most of their functionality, and the remaining percent are in many ways doable with just a bit of 'scripting'
- careyrouse 6y ago
  With all the customer interviews you've done, what roles and what industries are the ones you believe to have a larger number of these users who are good at Excel, who are ready to move up the chain to Access/Filemaker?
jedieaston 6y ago
Deploying the CRUD securely is a problem, though. Things like this and AirTable are entirely managed by their developers and your IT department, and Excel sheets can just be dropped into an email. If I write a cool python script, how is the rest of my team supposed to use it if none of us are developers and haven’t done it before, and with IT probably trying to stop me?
- sbr464 6y ago
  Also to point out, since mentioning the security aspect, any file/attachment/etc uploaded to AirTable are 100% open and unsecured as long as you can obtain the URL from any AirTable spreadsheet. They don't have a concept of authentication in regards to any files you've uploaded, regardless of your plan.

by VRay 6y ago

odshoifsdhfs 6y ago

I did a lot of customer interviews. And I mean a lot. People that are good at using Excel (as in, not just create a table with data, but know how to use it, do macros, pivots, etc), if the need arrives they just move up the chain to Access/Filemaker. I would say Excel is their gateway drug to coding. Maybe now they will move to Honeycode perhaps (if the UI is ok) The ones that can't use Excel past putting =A1+A2*0.2 can't use most of the no code tools. But they can use a more visual approach to programming. This is the market I believe will/is exploding as more and more, pretty much everything requires a computer/app, but the customisation for each specific case isn't there. They require a more Lego like approach to 'software' development. For me, that is the NO-CODE definition.

IggleSniggle 6y ago
Call me crazy, but with all the high-level language features in most of the commonly used languages of today, combined with the depth of rich IDE tooling for those languages, we already exist in a no-code world.
- odshoifsdhfs 6y ago
  Yes and no. Maybe you have better examples of programming languages, but even Ruby/Rails, Python, etc have concepts that make sense for programmers that non programmers don't grasp. Think of it this way, if you give a good designer the Rails Book (or another one), he may be able to do something after a few weeks that may match (but very crudely) the app he thought off. Now give the same designer Sketch/Figma, but allow him to sprinkle some logic in ready made blocks (if/elses, loops, save object, etc) and he will get much closer to what he wanted. Is the second approach better? Well most programmers will scream at the database model, etc. For the designer, he did in 2-3 days what would take him weeks and get away with something better. I think a lot of programmers look at their experience and think 'no-code' will never work, but (where my experience comes) 20+ years of doing software development as a consultant, what I found is 80-90% of most software share most of their functionality, and the remaining percent are in many ways doable with just a bit of 'scripting'
careyrouse 6y ago
With all the customer interviews you've done, what roles and what industries are the ones you believe to have a larger number of these users who are good at Excel, who are ready to move up the chain to Access/Filemaker?

jedieaston 6y ago

Deploying the CRUD securely is a problem, though. Things like this and AirTable are entirely managed by their developers and your IT department, and Excel sheets can just be dropped into an email. If I write a cool python script, how is the rest of my team supposed to use it if none of us are developers and haven’t done it before, and with IT probably trying to stop me?

sbr464 6y ago
Also to point out, since mentioning the security aspect, any file/attachment/etc uploaded to AirTable are 100% open and unsecured as long as you can obtain the URL from any AirTable spreadsheet. They don't have a concept of authentication in regards to any files you've uploaded, regardless of your plan.