3 ms·

Whatever happened to the neophyte raising him/herself up to level of the master? Programming seems to be the only profession in which the beginner is excused le

by cutler 6y ago

Whatever happened to the neophyte raising him/herself up to level of the master? Programming seems to be the only profession in which the beginner is excused learning the language thoroughly and, worse, that he/she expects the language to be dumbed down to make it easier to learn. Can you imagine a budding musician complaining that musical notation should be made "easier for beginners"? If you want to grok Perl learn Perl ... thoroughly.

viraptor 6y ago
> Can you imagine a budding musician complaining that musical notation should be made "easier for beginners"? You mean like string instrument tab coloured by finger instead of sheet music? Yes, exactly like that.
- cutler 6y ago
  But you would still have to master notation if you were to become an accomplished jazz musician, for example.
  - viraptor 6y ago
    Sure. The context is "dumbed down to make it easier to learn" not dumbed down and forced on everyone. If you want to go full Brian Eno, you can. (https://public-media.si-cdn.com/filer/2b/e0/2be067d0-c428-4017-b896-e38a97004afb/brian-eno-music-for-airports.jpg https://public-media.si-cdn.com/filer/2b/e0/2be067d0-c428-40...)
- sergeykish 6y ago
  Language is a tool for programmer. Restrict scale to pentatonic even for professionals (remove physical keys, holes etc). They would absolutely mess up otherwise.
geocar 6y ago
> Programming seems to be the only profession in which the neophyte is excused learning the language thoroughly and, worse, that he/she expects the language to be dumbed down to make it easier to learn. Can you imagine a budding musician complaining that musical notation should be made "easier for beginners"? Yes. Yes I can[1] [1]: https://how-to-play-electric-guitar.net/tab-symbols.html https://how-to-play-electric-guitar.net/tab-symbols.html The problem isn't merely that notation is easy/hard, but that people will not only pass judgement about a language (or any other idea), they will also work actively to convince others to agree with them, and oh yeah, that programmers are people too.
- daotoad 6y ago
  > programmers are people too Are we really?
xyproto 6y ago
Perl is an old accordion.
jodrellblank 6y ago
> "Can you imagine a budding musician complaining that musical notation should be made "easier for beginners"?" Yes, of course I can: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_music_notation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_music_notation and from the linked website "is designed for learners in general". > "worse, that he/she expects the language to be dumbed down to make it easier to learn." And why should "simplify" have the connotation "dumbed down, for dumb people"? Everyone benefits from simpler things with fewer warts and fewer hazards.

by cutler 6y ago

viraptor 6y ago

> Can you imagine a budding musician complaining that musical notation should be made "easier for beginners"? You mean like string instrument tab coloured by finger instead of sheet music? Yes, exactly like that.

cutler 6y ago
But you would still have to master notation if you were to become an accomplished jazz musician, for example.
- viraptor 6y ago
  Sure. The context is "dumbed down to make it easier to learn" not dumbed down and forced on everyone. If you want to go full Brian Eno, you can. (https://public-media.si-cdn.com/filer/2b/e0/2be067d0-c428-4017-b896-e38a97004afb/brian-eno-music-for-airports.jpg https://public-media.si-cdn.com/filer/2b/e0/2be067d0-c428-40...)
sergeykish 6y ago
Language is a tool for programmer. Restrict scale to pentatonic even for professionals (remove physical keys, holes etc). They would absolutely mess up otherwise.

geocar 6y ago

> Programming seems to be the only profession in which the neophyte is excused learning the language thoroughly and, worse, that he/she expects the language to be dumbed down to make it easier to learn. Can you imagine a budding musician complaining that musical notation should be made "easier for beginners"? Yes. Yes I can[1] [1]: https://how-to-play-electric-guitar.net/tab-symbols.html https://how-to-play-electric-guitar.net/tab-symbols.html The problem isn't merely that notation is easy/hard, but that people will not only pass judgement about a language (or any other idea), they will also work actively to convince others to agree with them, and oh yeah, that programmers are people too.

daotoad 6y ago
> programmers are people too Are we really?

xyproto 6y ago

Perl is an old accordion.

jodrellblank 6y ago

> "Can you imagine a budding musician complaining that musical notation should be made "easier for beginners"?" Yes, of course I can: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_music_notation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simplified_music_notation and from the linked website "is designed for learners in general". > "worse, that he/she expects the language to be dumbed down to make it easier to learn." And why should "simplify" have the connotation "dumbed down, for dumb people"? Everyone benefits from simpler things with fewer warts and fewer hazards.