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The final claim is hyperbolic. There absolutely is another option which is to find people who aren't interested in performing amiability or socializing exclusiv

The final claim is hyperbolic. There absolutely is another option which is to find people who aren't interested in performing amiability or socializing exclusively in the safety of their ethnicity. I made friends because we loved talking about healthcare policy, from being on the debate team, from a shared love for Mad Men, from being interested in starting companies. I did all of this as someone who'd spent the decade preceding college growing up in Bangladesh, with a thick accent and somehow ended up with a group of friends from all around the world. I'm not saying any of this was easy, but I do think there's a self-defeating element to believing what the parent does.

L_Rahman 6y ago
In the interest of intellectual honesty, it's possible that I'm an extreme outlier in this respect. I've spent the last year traveling around the world, I find it really easy to share emotional vulnerability with strangers, and I've made meaningful connections with people in every country I've lived in for more than a week. This is likely not true for most people.
- scsc 6y ago
  haha easy there traveler. True for more people than you think.
- watwut 6y ago
  Emotional vulnerability is easier with strangers you will never meet again. What parent talks about is acceptance and being member of in-group. That is much much different. It is also much different to really click and be really in-group with people from another culture, because you can't rely on assumptions you grew with.
- dondawest 6y ago
  In the interest of intellectual honesty, I just wanted to say that I’m an awesome person and I am literally so cool. This is likely not true for most people.
  - L_Rahman 6y ago
    I respect the call out in this comment.
- TomSwirly 6y ago
  > I find it really easy to share emotional vulnerability with strangers You and almost everyone else. It's much easier to be emotionally vulnerable using a "throw-away account". For an example, if you come out as gay to some stranger on a train, it's almost certain that there will never be any real-world repercussions. But if you come out as gay to someone in your hometown, it will likely change your life forever. > I've made meaningful connections with people in every country I've lived in for more than a week. [...] This is likely not true for most people. Funny, I've heard some variation on this speech from most people who get to travel around the world for a year. I attribute it to not having to worry about money, myself, and it's my belief that a majority of humanity would be that way, if they could afford it.
analyst74 6y ago
> I'm not saying any of this was easy, but I do think there's a self-defeating element to believing what the parent does. Totally agree, if you start off thinking that it's hard to make friends with foreigners, it might discourage you and causing you to not even try. That being said, pretending the barrier doesn't exist is also harmful, because you do need to try harder. Without that expectation and conscious effort, most people naturally gravitate towards their existing in-group, which may be drawn along not just racial lines, but also regional, political, class, or any other lines that causes difference. Edit: different groups are also treated differently, because they benefit or suffer from different stereotypes. A white American living in Asia will have very different experience than an Asian person living in US.
novok 6y ago
I call it the language comfort pit. Because it's comfortable to not learn the language properly and hang out with people from the home country, you just make a small home country in the new country. It happens whenever you have that community available. If it's just yourself, then you are forced to adjust. I saw it happening with my family members too. The ones that went to the large immigrant community led to them not knowing English well, while the more isolated ones integrated properly. One even first went to somewhere with no community, and when they moved to somewhere with community they said that their English used to be better back there! I also saw how they became a burden on their children as they were not able to function properly in a country where they couldn't speak the language properly, closing off opportunity to themselves. On the other side with Chinese students who come over to a western country, I found it frustrating that they were pretty shy & insular when speaking english while they were gregarious and cracking jokes in chinese amongst each other. I tried to connect, but I think they feel too embarrassed to try to speak english, so they don't practice enough outside the minimum and never reach competency and then stick with their chinese friendship group. And they don't seem that interested most of the time :( You also see it happening with western expats in asian countries too. So my suggestion to anyone moving to another country and planning to stay there for years, avoid the home group and force yourself to speak with mistakes. Otherwise you hurt and isolate yourself instead and write sour grapes essays like this one.

L_Rahman 6y ago

In the interest of intellectual honesty, it's possible that I'm an extreme outlier in this respect. I've spent the last year traveling around the world, I find it really easy to share emotional vulnerability with strangers, and I've made meaningful connections with people in every country I've lived in for more than a week. This is likely not true for most people.

scsc 6y ago
haha easy there traveler. True for more people than you think.
watwut 6y ago
Emotional vulnerability is easier with strangers you will never meet again. What parent talks about is acceptance and being member of in-group. That is much much different. It is also much different to really click and be really in-group with people from another culture, because you can't rely on assumptions you grew with.
dondawest 6y ago
In the interest of intellectual honesty, I just wanted to say that I’m an awesome person and I am literally so cool. This is likely not true for most people.
- L_Rahman 6y ago
  I respect the call out in this comment.
TomSwirly 6y ago
> I find it really easy to share emotional vulnerability with strangers You and almost everyone else. It's much easier to be emotionally vulnerable using a "throw-away account". For an example, if you come out as gay to some stranger on a train, it's almost certain that there will never be any real-world repercussions. But if you come out as gay to someone in your hometown, it will likely change your life forever. > I've made meaningful connections with people in every country I've lived in for more than a week. [...] This is likely not true for most people. Funny, I've heard some variation on this speech from most people who get to travel around the world for a year. I attribute it to not having to worry about money, myself, and it's my belief that a majority of humanity would be that way, if they could afford it.

analyst74 6y ago

> I'm not saying any of this was easy, but I do think there's a self-defeating element to believing what the parent does. Totally agree, if you start off thinking that it's hard to make friends with foreigners, it might discourage you and causing you to not even try. That being said, pretending the barrier doesn't exist is also harmful, because you do need to try harder. Without that expectation and conscious effort, most people naturally gravitate towards their existing in-group, which may be drawn along not just racial lines, but also regional, political, class, or any other lines that causes difference. Edit: different groups are also treated differently, because they benefit or suffer from different stereotypes. A white American living in Asia will have very different experience than an Asian person living in US.

novok 6y ago

I call it the language comfort pit. Because it's comfortable to not learn the language properly and hang out with people from the home country, you just make a small home country in the new country. It happens whenever you have that community available. If it's just yourself, then you are forced to adjust. I saw it happening with my family members too. The ones that went to the large immigrant community led to them not knowing English well, while the more isolated ones integrated properly. One even first went to somewhere with no community, and when they moved to somewhere with community they said that their English used to be better back there! I also saw how they became a burden on their children as they were not able to function properly in a country where they couldn't speak the language properly, closing off opportunity to themselves. On the other side with Chinese students who come over to a western country, I found it frustrating that they were pretty shy & insular when speaking english while they were gregarious and cracking jokes in chinese amongst each other. I tried to connect, but I think they feel too embarrassed to try to speak english, so they don't practice enough outside the minimum and never reach competency and then stick with their chinese friendship group. And they don't seem that interested most of the time :( You also see it happening with western expats in asian countries too. So my suggestion to anyone moving to another country and planning to stay there for years, avoid the home group and force yourself to speak with mistakes. Otherwise you hurt and isolate yourself instead and write sour grapes essays like this one.