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Fleetsmith disabled their entire third-party app catalog this morning and disabled Bash scripting (that was reenabled 15 minutes ago), breaking workflows for a

Fleetsmith disabled their entire third-party app catalog this morning and disabled Bash scripting (that was reenabled 15 minutes ago), breaking workflows for a bunch of users (and, according to the MacAdmins slack, tons of end users got random popups asking for an administrator to fix kernel extensions that were previously loaded via Fleetsmith). [0] I can understand having to sunset the catalog, but how did Fleetsmith (or Apple) think that doing that without one peep was okay? Even a "we've been informed by legal that we can't host these packages, so within x days they will be removed from our catalog. we will provide functionality to replace them on your systems with packages you make yourself". 0: https://www.reddit.com/r/macsysadmin/comments/hf30qk/apple_buys_fleetsmith_mdm/ https://www.reddit.com/r/macsysadmin/comments/hf30qk/apple_b... (discussion about fallout)

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago
> Fleetsmith disabled their entire third-party app catalog this morning and disabled Bash scripting (that was reenabled 15 minutes ago), breaking workflows for a bunch of users (and, according to the MacAdmins slack, tons of end users got random popups asking for an administrator to fix kernel extensions that were previously loaded via Fleetsmith) So, they're already learning from Apple?
- apercu 6y ago
  I hate to have to sardonically upvote this but Apple has really been losing their way.I find both my iMac and my iPhone to be increasingly nagware-focused, especially because I have zero desire to use iCloud.
  - playingchanges 6y ago
    The insistence on bullying me into iCloud with notifications is my least favorite iOS feature.
    - enos_feedler 6y ago
      Curious, why not use iCloud?
      - PaulHoule 6y ago
        In general I've had bad luck with "cloud storage" applications such as Dropbox. A lot of it is that I lived behind a very slow DSL connection, so synchronizing a modest number of files could mean the DSL connection was degraded for all users. I tried to give OneDrive a chance but the close integration with Microsoft Office meant that I frequently could not save the documents I was working on because OneDrive didn't want to save. The nagging to install OneDrive killed it for me because it caused lost work. Microsoft did the same with OneNote. OneNote was a great notetaking application, but Microsoft managed to put two buttons on the taskbar, three on the desktop, commandeer the Print Dialogs and use every other trick in the book to trick people into using it. Then it a fit of mindlessness they removed the ability to have a local (non-cloud) Notebook and I was gone.
        ethbro 6y ago
        Microsoft's cloud storage integration suffers from configuritis for me (poster child: SharePoint). I'm sure there's a perfect way to use it for all my use cases. But doing so would require I learn / study the correct OneDrive-specific settings. Which would only be useful for OneDrive. But by far worse, the defaults on most Microsoft products don't follow first, do no harm. Consequently, unless I learn the settings and monkey with them, adopting the product will negatively impact me.
      - Sylamore 6y ago
        I already have a cloud sync service through OneDrive that is substantially cheaper for my whole family for starters. That Apple won't allow a 3rd party to act functionally equivalent to iCloud is annoying and seems like mostly an intentional business decision to sell more iCloud than provide a good user experience. I don't need 2 different cloud storage providers, let me use the one I already have.
- phoe-krk 6y ago
  > So, they're already learning from Apple? No. They're already Apple.
Dave_Rosenthal 6y ago
How? Pretty simple: Transition during an acquisition is driven by the M&A and legal teams which are more focused on mitigating deal risk than providing customer/product benefit. It's just simply not top of mind for them. It then takes a while for the acquired team and tech to work their way into the engineering organization but by that time the damage of the initial decisions is done.
- pdabbadabba 6y ago
  This can be true. But that's when, as a lawyer, I expect the product teams and other folks within the business to push back, if necessary, so we can find a solution that optimally balances risk against ongoing business needs. Of course, if the business really just cares about getting the deal done, and doesn't care that much about their existing customers in light of that deal, then... But just as likely the business team either is inexperienced or doesn't have clear objectives for the transition and therefore doesn't give the deal/legal team the feedback they need to strike the right balance. A good lawyer will fish for these types of issues, but its hard to know what you don't know, especially if you're not in direct contact with the right people.
chmars 6y ago
Wow, without third-party apps, FS has become mostly useless. That's a lot of pain for admins, especially in a SME environment where I'm not aware of any viable alternatives …
- jedieaston 6y ago
  You can make custom packages yourself and upload them, but there's no information on how to remediate that with the packages that Fleetsmith themselves already installed (that I saw).
  - bradgessler 6y ago
    Yeah, the problem is they deleted controls without warning, potentially opening up their customers to risks. Had they automatically migrated their third party packages to custom packages or gave more time it would have been OK.
bradgessler 6y ago
Yeah, this is unacceptable. I get why Apple legal wanted to kill off distributing third party apps, but the way Fleetsmith approached this likely puts many companies out of compliance who were using it to enforce minimum versions of 3rd party apps. They really should have put together a migration plan that included time for an orderly transition and a way to automatically move the third-party apps into the custom catalog, maybe even after the administrator accepts liability for distributing those apps.
PaulHoule 6y ago
In the enterprise IT world, admins pay money precisely because they don't want things like this to happen. I can't imagine that IBM would make an acquisition like this and screw it up in quite this way.
- IncRnd 6y ago
  This is so absolutely true. What happened here shows that the people involved have no idea as to what enterprise companies require. It's sort of like hiring an intern who made a change that they thought was a-ok but that also took the entire network offline.
- traceroute66 6y ago
  "Can't imagine IBM would ..." Oh really ? IBM's probably the most enterprisey lawyer-driven tech outfit there is ? And even if they didn't, its IBM ... they've got a dozen other ways they'll mess it up. IBM is a brand relic living in the glories of its past. Its not the company it used to be.
  - rezonant 6y ago
    I believe you are thinking of Oracle
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - pstuart 6y ago
      por que no los dos?
    - duncanawoods 6y ago
      Pretty sure they are an enterprisey tech-driven lawyer outfit.
      - rezonant 6y ago
        Ahh, that's right.
Dahoon 6y ago
This is the way Apple does it on most (all?) takeovers.
- lallysingh 6y ago
  That's a good way to keep people from using products that risk takeover. Apple is for consumer only. Get out of that wheelhouse and you're risking a good fuck-over.
- conradev 6y ago
  Our app Workflow had a largely seamless transition when being acquired, minus accidentally DDoSing Pinboard[1] for a period of time due to a bug. [1] https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/845072973673357312 https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/845072973673357312

WrtCdEvrydy 6y ago

> Fleetsmith disabled their entire third-party app catalog this morning and disabled Bash scripting (that was reenabled 15 minutes ago), breaking workflows for a bunch of users (and, according to the MacAdmins slack, tons of end users got random popups asking for an administrator to fix kernel extensions that were previously loaded via Fleetsmith) So, they're already learning from Apple?

apercu 6y ago
I hate to have to sardonically upvote this but Apple has really been losing their way.I find both my iMac and my iPhone to be increasingly nagware-focused, especially because I have zero desire to use iCloud.
- playingchanges 6y ago
  The insistence on bullying me into iCloud with notifications is my least favorite iOS feature.
  - enos_feedler 6y ago
    Curious, why not use iCloud?
    - PaulHoule 6y ago
      In general I've had bad luck with "cloud storage" applications such as Dropbox. A lot of it is that I lived behind a very slow DSL connection, so synchronizing a modest number of files could mean the DSL connection was degraded for all users. I tried to give OneDrive a chance but the close integration with Microsoft Office meant that I frequently could not save the documents I was working on because OneDrive didn't want to save. The nagging to install OneDrive killed it for me because it caused lost work. Microsoft did the same with OneNote. OneNote was a great notetaking application, but Microsoft managed to put two buttons on the taskbar, three on the desktop, commandeer the Print Dialogs and use every other trick in the book to trick people into using it. Then it a fit of mindlessness they removed the ability to have a local (non-cloud) Notebook and I was gone.
      - ethbro 6y ago
        Microsoft's cloud storage integration suffers from configuritis for me (poster child: SharePoint). I'm sure there's a perfect way to use it for all my use cases. But doing so would require I learn / study the correct OneDrive-specific settings. Which would only be useful for OneDrive. But by far worse, the defaults on most Microsoft products don't follow first, do no harm. Consequently, unless I learn the settings and monkey with them, adopting the product will negatively impact me.
    - Sylamore 6y ago
      I already have a cloud sync service through OneDrive that is substantially cheaper for my whole family for starters. That Apple won't allow a 3rd party to act functionally equivalent to iCloud is annoying and seems like mostly an intentional business decision to sell more iCloud than provide a good user experience. I don't need 2 different cloud storage providers, let me use the one I already have.
phoe-krk 6y ago
> So, they're already learning from Apple? No. They're already Apple.

Dave_Rosenthal 6y ago

How? Pretty simple: Transition during an acquisition is driven by the M&A and legal teams which are more focused on mitigating deal risk than providing customer/product benefit. It's just simply not top of mind for them. It then takes a while for the acquired team and tech to work their way into the engineering organization but by that time the damage of the initial decisions is done.

pdabbadabba 6y ago
This can be true. But that's when, as a lawyer, I expect the product teams and other folks within the business to push back, if necessary, so we can find a solution that optimally balances risk against ongoing business needs. Of course, if the business really just cares about getting the deal done, and doesn't care that much about their existing customers in light of that deal, then... But just as likely the business team either is inexperienced or doesn't have clear objectives for the transition and therefore doesn't give the deal/legal team the feedback they need to strike the right balance. A good lawyer will fish for these types of issues, but its hard to know what you don't know, especially if you're not in direct contact with the right people.

chmars 6y ago

Wow, without third-party apps, FS has become mostly useless. That's a lot of pain for admins, especially in a SME environment where I'm not aware of any viable alternatives …

jedieaston 6y ago
You can make custom packages yourself and upload them, but there's no information on how to remediate that with the packages that Fleetsmith themselves already installed (that I saw).
- bradgessler 6y ago
  Yeah, the problem is they deleted controls without warning, potentially opening up their customers to risks. Had they automatically migrated their third party packages to custom packages or gave more time it would have been OK.

bradgessler 6y ago

Yeah, this is unacceptable. I get why Apple legal wanted to kill off distributing third party apps, but the way Fleetsmith approached this likely puts many companies out of compliance who were using it to enforce minimum versions of 3rd party apps. They really should have put together a migration plan that included time for an orderly transition and a way to automatically move the third-party apps into the custom catalog, maybe even after the administrator accepts liability for distributing those apps.

PaulHoule 6y ago

In the enterprise IT world, admins pay money precisely because they don't want things like this to happen. I can't imagine that IBM would make an acquisition like this and screw it up in quite this way.

IncRnd 6y ago
This is so absolutely true. What happened here shows that the people involved have no idea as to what enterprise companies require. It's sort of like hiring an intern who made a change that they thought was a-ok but that also took the entire network offline.
traceroute66 6y ago
"Can't imagine IBM would ..." Oh really ? IBM's probably the most enterprisey lawyer-driven tech outfit there is ? And even if they didn't, its IBM ... they've got a dozen other ways they'll mess it up. IBM is a brand relic living in the glories of its past. Its not the company it used to be.
- rezonant 6y ago
  I believe you are thinking of Oracle
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - pstuart 6y ago
    por que no los dos?
  - duncanawoods 6y ago
    Pretty sure they are an enterprisey tech-driven lawyer outfit.
    - rezonant 6y ago
      Ahh, that's right.

Dahoon 6y ago

This is the way Apple does it on most (all?) takeovers.

lallysingh 6y ago
That's a good way to keep people from using products that risk takeover. Apple is for consumer only. Get out of that wheelhouse and you're risking a good fuck-over.
conradev 6y ago
Our app Workflow had a largely seamless transition when being acquired, minus accidentally DDoSing Pinboard[1] for a period of time due to a bug. [1] https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/845072973673357312 https://twitter.com/Pinboard/status/845072973673357312