6 ms·

I think it was really Perl 6 that killed it. Perl had a significant lead over Python, and the Perl 6 announcement just sucked the life out of it.

NortySpock 6y ago
So it's the Osborne effect? Where you stop using Perl 5 because you're waiting for Perl 6 (announced in 2000, released never? As Raku? As a rolling release? The history appears confusing in Wikipedia.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  Perl 6 was released as language spec and on the Rakudo implementation; the rename to Raku was kind of a backformation from the name of the Rakudo implementation, but it was after the first stable release.
- lizmat 6y ago
  Perl 6 had its first official release in December 2015. It has since been improved, mainly in performance and in async / event driven capabilities. It got renamed to Raku last year (https://raku.org https://raku.org using the #rakulang tag on social media). You can check out the Rakudo Weekly News if you want to stay up-to-date: https://rakudoweekly.blog https://rakudoweekly.blog
  - Ultimatt 6y ago
    What was the 2010 Rakudo Star release then? Is 2015 language spec stability?
Scarblac 6y ago
It wasn't the language, it was Numpy. Everything that is built on top of Numpy is what made Python so popular. And I guess Perl also never had its Django (or Rails).
- singingfish 6y ago
  > And I guess Perl also never had its Django (or Rails). It’s got two of them - Catalyst (older still works fine) and Mojo - newer and shinier. I think python is a better fit for mathematical work. I like to say that python helps you think more like the computer does, and that perl helps the computer think more like you.
  - cutler 6y ago
    Catalyst was no match for Rails. Mojolicious could have been had Miyagawa's PSGI/Plack appeared on the scene half a decade earlier.
    - singingfish 6y ago
      rails as far as I understand is opinionated and optimised for CRUD / database type applications. Catalyst is much more agnostic about the model you use. It provides the flexibility and a way of structuring the code and providing debug tooling that makes structuring a decent size app well reasonably easy to do.
      - cutler 6y ago
        Catalyst was painful to work with in my experience. Just getting it setup was an achievement. Subroutine signatures as routes is an ugly hack.
        singingfish 6y ago
        I like catalyst,s dispatcher. And some of the pain of installing catalyst in the early days resulted in huge improvements to the change toolchain.
        cutler 6y ago
        I honestly think the Perl community's attachment to Catalyst contributed to Perl5's demise. Mojolicious was a much better bet for the future of Perl.

NortySpock 6y ago

So it's the Osborne effect? Where you stop using Perl 5 because you're waiting for Perl 6 (announced in 2000, released never? As Raku? As a rolling release? The history appears confusing in Wikipedia.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect

dragonwriter 6y ago
Perl 6 was released as language spec and on the Rakudo implementation; the rename to Raku was kind of a backformation from the name of the Rakudo implementation, but it was after the first stable release.
lizmat 6y ago
Perl 6 had its first official release in December 2015. It has since been improved, mainly in performance and in async / event driven capabilities. It got renamed to Raku last year (https://raku.org https://raku.org using the #rakulang tag on social media). You can check out the Rakudo Weekly News if you want to stay up-to-date: https://rakudoweekly.blog https://rakudoweekly.blog
- Ultimatt 6y ago
  What was the 2010 Rakudo Star release then? Is 2015 language spec stability?

Scarblac 6y ago

It wasn't the language, it was Numpy. Everything that is built on top of Numpy is what made Python so popular. And I guess Perl also never had its Django (or Rails).

singingfish 6y ago
> And I guess Perl also never had its Django (or Rails). It’s got two of them - Catalyst (older still works fine) and Mojo - newer and shinier. I think python is a better fit for mathematical work. I like to say that python helps you think more like the computer does, and that perl helps the computer think more like you.
- cutler 6y ago
  Catalyst was no match for Rails. Mojolicious could have been had Miyagawa's PSGI/Plack appeared on the scene half a decade earlier.
  - singingfish 6y ago
    rails as far as I understand is opinionated and optimised for CRUD / database type applications. Catalyst is much more agnostic about the model you use. It provides the flexibility and a way of structuring the code and providing debug tooling that makes structuring a decent size app well reasonably easy to do.
    - cutler 6y ago
      Catalyst was painful to work with in my experience. Just getting it setup was an achievement. Subroutine signatures as routes is an ugly hack.
      - singingfish 6y ago
        I like catalyst,s dispatcher. And some of the pain of installing catalyst in the early days resulted in huge improvements to the change toolchain.
        cutler 6y ago
        I honestly think the Perl community's attachment to Catalyst contributed to Perl5's demise. Mojolicious was a much better bet for the future of Perl.