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There used to be a big Python/Perl debate. I'm not sure I could have predicted how well that would turn out for Python, and how poorly for Perl. Readability and

There used to be a big Python/Perl debate. I'm not sure I could have predicted how well that would turn out for Python, and how poorly for Perl. Readability and ease of use matters?

QuesnayJr 6y ago
I think it was really Perl 6 that killed it. Perl had a significant lead over Python, and the Perl 6 announcement just sucked the life out of it.
- NortySpock 6y ago
  So it's the Osborne effect? Where you stop using Perl 5 because you're waiting for Perl 6 (announced in 2000, released never? As Raku? As a rolling release? The history appears confusing in Wikipedia.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    Perl 6 was released as language spec and on the Rakudo implementation; the rename to Raku was kind of a backformation from the name of the Rakudo implementation, but it was after the first stable release.
  - lizmat 6y ago
    Perl 6 had its first official release in December 2015. It has since been improved, mainly in performance and in async / event driven capabilities. It got renamed to Raku last year (https://raku.org https://raku.org using the #rakulang tag on social media). You can check out the Rakudo Weekly News if you want to stay up-to-date: https://rakudoweekly.blog https://rakudoweekly.blog
    - Ultimatt 6y ago
      What was the 2010 Rakudo Star release then? Is 2015 language spec stability?
- Scarblac 6y ago
  It wasn't the language, it was Numpy. Everything that is built on top of Numpy is what made Python so popular. And I guess Perl also never had its Django (or Rails).
  - singingfish 6y ago
    > And I guess Perl also never had its Django (or Rails). It’s got two of them - Catalyst (older still works fine) and Mojo - newer and shinier. I think python is a better fit for mathematical work. I like to say that python helps you think more like the computer does, and that perl helps the computer think more like you.
    - cutler 6y ago
      Catalyst was no match for Rails. Mojolicious could have been had Miyagawa's PSGI/Plack appeared on the scene half a decade earlier.
      - singingfish 6y ago
        rails as far as I understand is opinionated and optimised for CRUD / database type applications. Catalyst is much more agnostic about the model you use. It provides the flexibility and a way of structuring the code and providing debug tooling that makes structuring a decent size app well reasonably easy to do.
        cutler 6y ago
        Catalyst was painful to work with in my experience. Just getting it setup was an achievement. Subroutine signatures as routes is an ugly hack.
        singingfish 6y ago
        I like catalyst,s dispatcher. And some of the pain of installing catalyst in the early days resulted in huge improvements to the change toolchain.
jlokier 6y ago
Universities switched from teaching Java and Scheme to teaching Python. Probably because Python resembles pseudo-code. Anecdotally I've heard from a few people who said Python was the first language where ideas just made sense to them. An "easy to learn" language, in other words. (I can't relate to that and don't know why Python is thought of that way. As far as I can tell, beneath the syntax (which is prettier than Perl), Python is a messy language with even messier standard library.)

There used to be a big Python/Perl debate. I'm not sure I could have predicted how well that would turn out for Python, and how poorly for Perl. Readability and ease of use matters?

QuesnayJr 6y ago

I think it was really Perl 6 that killed it. Perl had a significant lead over Python, and the Perl 6 announcement just sucked the life out of it.

NortySpock 6y ago
So it's the Osborne effect? Where you stop using Perl 5 because you're waiting for Perl 6 (announced in 2000, released never? As Raku? As a rolling release? The history appears confusing in Wikipedia.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osborne_effect
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  Perl 6 was released as language spec and on the Rakudo implementation; the rename to Raku was kind of a backformation from the name of the Rakudo implementation, but it was after the first stable release.
- lizmat 6y ago
  Perl 6 had its first official release in December 2015. It has since been improved, mainly in performance and in async / event driven capabilities. It got renamed to Raku last year (https://raku.org https://raku.org using the #rakulang tag on social media). You can check out the Rakudo Weekly News if you want to stay up-to-date: https://rakudoweekly.blog https://rakudoweekly.blog
  - Ultimatt 6y ago
    What was the 2010 Rakudo Star release then? Is 2015 language spec stability?
Scarblac 6y ago
It wasn't the language, it was Numpy. Everything that is built on top of Numpy is what made Python so popular. And I guess Perl also never had its Django (or Rails).
- singingfish 6y ago
  > And I guess Perl also never had its Django (or Rails). It’s got two of them - Catalyst (older still works fine) and Mojo - newer and shinier. I think python is a better fit for mathematical work. I like to say that python helps you think more like the computer does, and that perl helps the computer think more like you.
  - cutler 6y ago
    Catalyst was no match for Rails. Mojolicious could have been had Miyagawa's PSGI/Plack appeared on the scene half a decade earlier.
    - singingfish 6y ago
      rails as far as I understand is opinionated and optimised for CRUD / database type applications. Catalyst is much more agnostic about the model you use. It provides the flexibility and a way of structuring the code and providing debug tooling that makes structuring a decent size app well reasonably easy to do.
      - cutler 6y ago
        Catalyst was painful to work with in my experience. Just getting it setup was an achievement. Subroutine signatures as routes is an ugly hack.
        singingfish 6y ago
        I like catalyst,s dispatcher. And some of the pain of installing catalyst in the early days resulted in huge improvements to the change toolchain.

jlokier 6y ago

Universities switched from teaching Java and Scheme to teaching Python. Probably because Python resembles pseudo-code. Anecdotally I've heard from a few people who said Python was the first language where ideas just made sense to them. An "easy to learn" language, in other words. (I can't relate to that and don't know why Python is thought of that way. As far as I can tell, beneath the syntax (which is prettier than Perl), Python is a messy language with even messier standard library.)