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> so an inheritance tax would be Is it not possible to imagine effective laws? Near me is a Gilded Age estate, a magnificent place. My understanding is that

> so an inheritance tax would be Is it not possible to imagine effective laws? Near me is a Gilded Age estate, a magnificent place. My understanding is that with the introduction of income tax, the family was eventually forced to turn it over to be a nonprofit in the 1970's. So, if my understanding is right, even folks who were staggeringly wealthy were not able to completely defeat the cross-generational effect of the law.

klenwell 6y ago
> Is it not possible to imagine effective laws? Good question. The Defund the Police movement should take notes from the conservative Starve the Beast movement. Defund the Police: Because Our Modern Supercriminals Are Too Smart for Law Enforcement Anyways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast
- charwalker 6y ago
  That's more or less what some cities are going for albeit with shifting the released funds to community support programs, training, and other resources instead of into the pockets of donors and the rich via tax cuts and putting the strain on the deficit. One issue is that most states and municipal governments are required to balance their budget each year or be in the black. I think there are only 2 states that don't have that law. Consider the loss of sales tax and more methods for municipal funding. Unfortunately, to meet that balanced budget requirement many may need to gut several departments through 2020/2021 and starting with the police budget is politically savvy but perhaps won't provide funding for alternative programs but just drop some red ink. I don't think the federal government is functional, split as it is, to address these budget shortfalls and allow local governments to address these issues. I'm hopeful the (likely, by the sources I follow) pending economic disaster is recognized before the election and the feds work together to prevent another major recession slip. Unlikely but hopeful.
  - klenwell 6y ago
    > That's more or less what some cities are going for albeit with shifting the released funds to community support programs, training, and other resources instead of into the pockets of donors and the rich via tax cuts and putting the strain on the deficit. Agreed. The solution for my community? Simply reverse the trends in the graph found here: https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/oc-shifted-millions-from-public-health-in-last-decade-while-doubling-sheriff-spending/ https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/oc-shifted-millions-from-publi...
lacker 6y ago
It seems unlikely that income tax would cause that. Property tax is a more likely culprit.
- dbcurtis 6y ago
  My guess would be minimum-wage plus employment taxes. Nobody can afford the labor to keep up those kinds of estates.
lobotryas 6y ago
How on your mind is any of this a good thing? I earn money, I pay taxes, I save prudently. Now, when I die, the government decides it gets to tax that money AGAIN? Money that has already cleared of its tax burden and is mine? Why? Just because some people arbitrarily decided that the amount I saved is too much? I did “too well” and now my family gets punished with another round of taxes before they can enjoy the fruits of my labor? The only justification for estate tax are the people with guns who will i prison or kill you if you don’t comply.
- ceejayoz 6y ago
  > the government decides it gets to tax that money AGAIN? This is what happens pretty much every other time money changes hands. I get taxed on my salary. I get taxed on my purchases made with the remaining money. I get taxed on the capital gains I make by investing the remaining money. The people I pay bills to get taxed on that income, and so on and so forth.
  - AnthonyMouse 6y ago
    > This is what happens pretty much every other time money changes hands. Money is usually taxed when there is an exchange. You buy a sandwich, you pay sales tax and the seller pays income tax. Inheritance isn't an exchange. It's effectively a gift. Gifts normally aren't taxed. Or they are, but not separately -- if you earn a dollar you pay income tax, if you buy a thing you pay sales tax, if you give the thing to someone else it "isn't taxed" except of course for all the taxes that were already paid in acquiring it. Adding a further tax is in fact taxing the same purchase again.
    - ceejayoz 6y ago
      > Gifts normally aren't taxed. Sure they are, we just have an exemption before they kick in. Just like the inheritance tax does. Why should my kids pay tax on gifts when I'm alive, but not when I die?
      - 6y ago

klenwell 6y ago

> Is it not possible to imagine effective laws? Good question. The Defund the Police movement should take notes from the conservative Starve the Beast movement. Defund the Police: Because Our Modern Supercriminals Are Too Smart for Law Enforcement Anyways. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast

charwalker 6y ago
That's more or less what some cities are going for albeit with shifting the released funds to community support programs, training, and other resources instead of into the pockets of donors and the rich via tax cuts and putting the strain on the deficit. One issue is that most states and municipal governments are required to balance their budget each year or be in the black. I think there are only 2 states that don't have that law. Consider the loss of sales tax and more methods for municipal funding. Unfortunately, to meet that balanced budget requirement many may need to gut several departments through 2020/2021 and starting with the police budget is politically savvy but perhaps won't provide funding for alternative programs but just drop some red ink. I don't think the federal government is functional, split as it is, to address these budget shortfalls and allow local governments to address these issues. I'm hopeful the (likely, by the sources I follow) pending economic disaster is recognized before the election and the feds work together to prevent another major recession slip. Unlikely but hopeful.
- klenwell 6y ago
  > That's more or less what some cities are going for albeit with shifting the released funds to community support programs, training, and other resources instead of into the pockets of donors and the rich via tax cuts and putting the strain on the deficit. Agreed. The solution for my community? Simply reverse the trends in the graph found here: https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/oc-shifted-millions-from-public-health-in-last-decade-while-doubling-sheriff-spending/ https://voiceofoc.org/2020/06/oc-shifted-millions-from-publi...

lacker 6y ago

It seems unlikely that income tax would cause that. Property tax is a more likely culprit.

dbcurtis 6y ago
My guess would be minimum-wage plus employment taxes. Nobody can afford the labor to keep up those kinds of estates.

lobotryas 6y ago

How on your mind is any of this a good thing? I earn money, I pay taxes, I save prudently. Now, when I die, the government decides it gets to tax that money AGAIN? Money that has already cleared of its tax burden and is mine? Why? Just because some people arbitrarily decided that the amount I saved is too much? I did “too well” and now my family gets punished with another round of taxes before they can enjoy the fruits of my labor? The only justification for estate tax are the people with guns who will i prison or kill you if you don’t comply.

ceejayoz 6y ago
> the government decides it gets to tax that money AGAIN? This is what happens pretty much every other time money changes hands. I get taxed on my salary. I get taxed on my purchases made with the remaining money. I get taxed on the capital gains I make by investing the remaining money. The people I pay bills to get taxed on that income, and so on and so forth.
- AnthonyMouse 6y ago
  > This is what happens pretty much every other time money changes hands. Money is usually taxed when there is an exchange. You buy a sandwich, you pay sales tax and the seller pays income tax. Inheritance isn't an exchange. It's effectively a gift. Gifts normally aren't taxed. Or they are, but not separately -- if you earn a dollar you pay income tax, if you buy a thing you pay sales tax, if you give the thing to someone else it "isn't taxed" except of course for all the taxes that were already paid in acquiring it. Adding a further tax is in fact taxing the same purchase again.
  - ceejayoz 6y ago
    > Gifts normally aren't taxed. Sure they are, we just have an exemption before they kick in. Just like the inheritance tax does. Why should my kids pay tax on gifts when I'm alive, but not when I die?
    - 6y ago