6 ms·

The article rings completely true to me. One simple example: folders in Google Drive. * It's a constant struggle to keep documents in folders so that you can f

The article rings completely true to me. One simple example: folders in Google Drive. * It's a constant struggle to keep documents in folders so that you can find them easily. * Yeah I get that I can do google search and find docs wherever they live. But I can't find docs if I don't know that they exist. * Moreover, I can't ensure that important documents are reliably stored in folders where everyone else can find them easily as well. I don't understand why Google does not get how important this is for business documents. It's a breath of fresh air to use Dropbox or Box at this point.

deelowe 6y ago
I'm confused. Doesn't shared drives solve this problem? You can set up a group, created a shared drive for that group, and then everyone has access to what's stored within it.
- milesskorpen 6y ago
  Shared Drives are a disaster, because the files in them are removed from your personal drive which makes them less discoverable for you. They work when highly managed (e.g., our training team for sales org) but not for product development teams in my experience. The expanding symlink functionality makes everything worse, because people think they're moving folders, but they're not, and permissions don't get rationalized. Ugh.
fireattack 6y ago
Can you elaborate more? I have no issues to put files or Google Docs in whatever folders I want in Google Drive, and they stay where they are (after all, Google Drive has local sync. It would be unusable if they don't).
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- callmeal 6y ago
  The issue is when there's more than one team that needs access. There are multiple ways to share a document and the links to the original are all different (based on how it was shared: via a shared drive or via a shared folder or via a shared document link). And finding that shared document (if you don't remember how it was shared in the first place) can be a nightmare. Sometimes you don't have a choice - we are a small team, and we're pretty good about using a shared drive and a shared folder. But sometimes you have to share a document with an external collaborator (or someone in another firm shares a document with you). And if you forgot how that document was shared, then google makes it practically impossible to find the original.
  - Drew_ 6y ago
    The only problem I see here is that either you guys are not using a file structure that makes sense to everyone or you're sharing links for random things and the people receiving those links are losing/ignoring them. Neither of these things sound like problems with Google Drive to me.
MperorM 6y ago
I don't really understand this sentiment, here's how my drive looks: https://i.imgur.com/UUUboTd.png https://i.imgur.com/UUUboTd.png does your drive look significantly different from this?
- alanbernstein 6y ago
  I have the same problem, but I suspect the true cause is sharing a folder structure with other people, without defining/enforcing any conventions on organization.
- txcwpalpha 6y ago
  Mine does. I agree wholeheartedly with the parent commenter. My personal G Drive looks similar to yours. It looks like your Drive is mostly used by you, and not many (if any) other collaborators. The problem is that my work G Drive is an utter clusterfuck because of the numerous different ways that documents can be shared between people/teams. There are shared folders, shared drives, individually shared documents, and probably more. And each one of them shows up in a completely different place than the others. If you're working with one specific team, you can likely get that entire team to conform to one way of doing things (everyone puts documents in this shared folder). But once you start involving 10s/100s of teams, thousands of individuals, etc... some teams use "Shared drives" (which show up on the left panel under "Shared drives"), some teams use shared folders (which show up in your folders list), some teams use individually shared documents (which show up in any number of random places, with the only reliable way of getting back to it is to find the email where they shared it with you). Some teams use shared drives internally within their team, but because they don't want to share the entire drive with an outside collaborator, they will share only a specific folder/file. The entire sharing mechanism becomes a mess and impossible to track and keep organized. G drive is nice in many aspects, but the sharing is one in which IMO it allows far too much flexibility. The nice thing about file systems of yesteryear like Sharepoint (ugh, ew) is that they at least said "this is the folder tree. use it, because you don't have any choice" which at least encouraged some modicum of structure. G Drive instead says "here's a sandbox, do what you want" which sounds nice in theory, but in practical use is a mess when you have 1000+ people building their own personal sandcastle.
SenHeng 6y ago
> Yeah I get that I can do google search and find docs wherever they live. But I can't find docs if I don't know that they exist. To illustrate this point more. I used to work in a company where everyone had to submit their timesheet via docs. And if you did not keep a link or copy or whatever they call it of your own sheet, it's essentially impossible to search for it, because now there are 1000s of identically named documents. It also happens when legal tries to share a generically named file with you and you lose the link, so you search for it and find a file that looks like it, only to realise that is HR's own special copy.
- charwalker 6y ago
  That sounds more like a process issue than a technology issue. The tools to manage this exist in the tech but mixing access, not restricting access, and other issues that persist in file shares, shared email boxes, mirroring AD access for new users, etc are the same issues as an old gmail that gets 1000 spam emails a day; it's a mess that needs to be audited and overhauled which is easiest by jumping to a new system/platform when able.
- reidjs 6y ago
  I wouldn't call this an issue w/ google docs, just pick a consistent naming scheme like timesheet_john_smith_august_2015. Or even better, just make it so only John Smith can see John Smith's timesheets through sharing preferences.
  - sz4kerto 6y ago
    Fantastic, so we're back from namespaces (directories) to prefixes.
- hodgesrm 6y ago
  This. I wish I had thought of your example first. We have service agreements that go through revisions. We copy the whole directory when there's a new release to ensure we don't lose old templates. At that point search on service agreements brings up a bunch of identically named documents in a listing that does not distinguish the directory location. It's actually caused us to send the wrong doc on several occasions. Google if you are listening please fix this. Just do what everyone else does. You don't have to be creative.
gumby 6y ago
> One simple example: folders in Google Drive. Tell me about it! The local Scout troop uses google docs for routine stuff like flyers, sign up sheets etc. I continue to routinely see unrelated material there: kids’ homework, doctor’s patient records, once a marketing plan for $BIG_SV_COMPANY etc. It’s not like there are one or two clueless souls: several documents a week show ip from all sorts of different people.
lordgrenville 6y ago
> a breath of fresh air to use {Drop,}box at this point
lern_too_spel 6y ago
You're not the only one. Organizing documents in Google Drive is a huge pain. When I create a folder, I often want to put multiple existing documents in it. I find the documents by searching, and each time, the "Move to Folder" modal makes me navigate the directory hierarchy to find my new folder instead of having it available as a recently-accessed folder like Gnome does.
- hodgesrm 6y ago
  Seen that one too. The fact you can't do quick batch operations across many documents makes me crazy. Google Docs has so much potential. Google should just spin it off into a separate company and let it find its own way. Making it conform to Google notions of search has crippled the design.

deelowe 6y ago

I'm confused. Doesn't shared drives solve this problem? You can set up a group, created a shared drive for that group, and then everyone has access to what's stored within it.

milesskorpen 6y ago
Shared Drives are a disaster, because the files in them are removed from your personal drive which makes them less discoverable for you. They work when highly managed (e.g., our training team for sales org) but not for product development teams in my experience. The expanding symlink functionality makes everything worse, because people think they're moving folders, but they're not, and permissions don't get rationalized. Ugh.

fireattack 6y ago

Can you elaborate more? I have no issues to put files or Google Docs in whatever folders I want in Google Drive, and they stay where they are (after all, Google Drive has local sync. It would be unusable if they don't).

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
callmeal 6y ago
The issue is when there's more than one team that needs access. There are multiple ways to share a document and the links to the original are all different (based on how it was shared: via a shared drive or via a shared folder or via a shared document link). And finding that shared document (if you don't remember how it was shared in the first place) can be a nightmare. Sometimes you don't have a choice - we are a small team, and we're pretty good about using a shared drive and a shared folder. But sometimes you have to share a document with an external collaborator (or someone in another firm shares a document with you). And if you forgot how that document was shared, then google makes it practically impossible to find the original.
- Drew_ 6y ago
  The only problem I see here is that either you guys are not using a file structure that makes sense to everyone or you're sharing links for random things and the people receiving those links are losing/ignoring them. Neither of these things sound like problems with Google Drive to me.

MperorM 6y ago

I don't really understand this sentiment, here's how my drive looks: https://i.imgur.com/UUUboTd.png https://i.imgur.com/UUUboTd.png does your drive look significantly different from this?

alanbernstein 6y ago
I have the same problem, but I suspect the true cause is sharing a folder structure with other people, without defining/enforcing any conventions on organization.
txcwpalpha 6y ago
Mine does. I agree wholeheartedly with the parent commenter. My personal G Drive looks similar to yours. It looks like your Drive is mostly used by you, and not many (if any) other collaborators. The problem is that my work G Drive is an utter clusterfuck because of the numerous different ways that documents can be shared between people/teams. There are shared folders, shared drives, individually shared documents, and probably more. And each one of them shows up in a completely different place than the others. If you're working with one specific team, you can likely get that entire team to conform to one way of doing things (everyone puts documents in this shared folder). But once you start involving 10s/100s of teams, thousands of individuals, etc... some teams use "Shared drives" (which show up on the left panel under "Shared drives"), some teams use shared folders (which show up in your folders list), some teams use individually shared documents (which show up in any number of random places, with the only reliable way of getting back to it is to find the email where they shared it with you). Some teams use shared drives internally within their team, but because they don't want to share the entire drive with an outside collaborator, they will share only a specific folder/file. The entire sharing mechanism becomes a mess and impossible to track and keep organized. G drive is nice in many aspects, but the sharing is one in which IMO it allows far too much flexibility. The nice thing about file systems of yesteryear like Sharepoint (ugh, ew) is that they at least said "this is the folder tree. use it, because you don't have any choice" which at least encouraged some modicum of structure. G Drive instead says "here's a sandbox, do what you want" which sounds nice in theory, but in practical use is a mess when you have 1000+ people building their own personal sandcastle.

SenHeng 6y ago

> Yeah I get that I can do google search and find docs wherever they live. But I can't find docs if I don't know that they exist. To illustrate this point more. I used to work in a company where everyone had to submit their timesheet via docs. And if you did not keep a link or copy or whatever they call it of your own sheet, it's essentially impossible to search for it, because now there are 1000s of identically named documents. It also happens when legal tries to share a generically named file with you and you lose the link, so you search for it and find a file that looks like it, only to realise that is HR's own special copy.

charwalker 6y ago
That sounds more like a process issue than a technology issue. The tools to manage this exist in the tech but mixing access, not restricting access, and other issues that persist in file shares, shared email boxes, mirroring AD access for new users, etc are the same issues as an old gmail that gets 1000 spam emails a day; it's a mess that needs to be audited and overhauled which is easiest by jumping to a new system/platform when able.
reidjs 6y ago
I wouldn't call this an issue w/ google docs, just pick a consistent naming scheme like timesheet_john_smith_august_2015. Or even better, just make it so only John Smith can see John Smith's timesheets through sharing preferences.
- sz4kerto 6y ago
  Fantastic, so we're back from namespaces (directories) to prefixes.
hodgesrm 6y ago
This. I wish I had thought of your example first. We have service agreements that go through revisions. We copy the whole directory when there's a new release to ensure we don't lose old templates. At that point search on service agreements brings up a bunch of identically named documents in a listing that does not distinguish the directory location. It's actually caused us to send the wrong doc on several occasions. Google if you are listening please fix this. Just do what everyone else does. You don't have to be creative.

gumby 6y ago

> One simple example: folders in Google Drive. Tell me about it! The local Scout troop uses google docs for routine stuff like flyers, sign up sheets etc. I continue to routinely see unrelated material there: kids’ homework, doctor’s patient records, once a marketing plan for $BIG_SV_COMPANY etc. It’s not like there are one or two clueless souls: several documents a week show ip from all sorts of different people.

lordgrenville 6y ago

> a breath of fresh air to use {Drop,}box at this point

lern_too_spel 6y ago

You're not the only one. Organizing documents in Google Drive is a huge pain. When I create a folder, I often want to put multiple existing documents in it. I find the documents by searching, and each time, the "Move to Folder" modal makes me navigate the directory hierarchy to find my new folder instead of having it available as a recently-accessed folder like Gnome does.

hodgesrm 6y ago
Seen that one too. The fact you can't do quick batch operations across many documents makes me crazy. Google Docs has so much potential. Google should just spin it off into a separate company and let it find its own way. Making it conform to Google notions of search has crippled the design.