4 ms·

I think the quote is just Tolkien getting really annoyed that people read LoTR as an allegory for WWII. If I understand the quote correctly, he is rejecting th

by goto11 6y ago

I think the quote is just Tolkien getting really annoyed that people read LoTR as an allegory for WWII. If I understand the quote correctly, he is rejecting the form of allegory where the reader is supposed to "get it" and use the allegory to "decode the message". But Tolkien wasn't trying to say anything about the Jewish people through the vehicle of Dwarwes, he was just drawing on some inspiration.

morelisp 6y ago
But - really? You don't think he was saying anything about the Jewish people when he had a friendship between a dwarf and elf succeed over timeless racial antipathy? Or by having the plight of the dwarves be what ultimately moves a member of the extremely comfortable hobbit gentry to direct action? Or even by the simple mixing of the unquestioned Norse "supreme contribution to Europe" with Jewish mythology, he wasn't hinting that, maybe, also, the Jewish people had contributed in the same way? I agree you can't just read Middle Earth as "alternate Europe" (and especially not the War of the Ring as a WW2 allegory) and a lot of people unfortunately do. But if Tolkien had nothing to say, he would not have written anything; and having written something, he cannot help but say something.
- deleted 6y ago
  [deleted]
- goto11 6y ago
  > Or by having the plight of the dwarves be what ultimately moves a member of the extremely comfortable hobbit gentry to direct action? I curious what you think he was trying to say with this? > Or even by the simple mixing of the unquestioned Norse "supreme contribution to Europe" with Jewish mythology, he wasn't hinting that, maybe, also, the Jewish people had contributed in the same way? Jewish mythology was by far more well known than Norse, through the Old Testament and its influence on Christianity. So I don't see why Tolkien would want to make that a point of that.

by goto11 6y ago

morelisp 6y ago

But - really? You don't think he was saying anything about the Jewish people when he had a friendship between a dwarf and elf succeed over timeless racial antipathy? Or by having the plight of the dwarves be what ultimately moves a member of the extremely comfortable hobbit gentry to direct action? Or even by the simple mixing of the unquestioned Norse "supreme contribution to Europe" with Jewish mythology, he wasn't hinting that, maybe, also, the Jewish people had contributed in the same way? I agree you can't just read Middle Earth as "alternate Europe" (and especially not the War of the Ring as a WW2 allegory) and a lot of people unfortunately do. But if Tolkien had nothing to say, he would not have written anything; and having written something, he cannot help but say something.

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
goto11 6y ago
> Or by having the plight of the dwarves be what ultimately moves a member of the extremely comfortable hobbit gentry to direct action? I curious what you think he was trying to say with this? > Or even by the simple mixing of the unquestioned Norse "supreme contribution to Europe" with Jewish mythology, he wasn't hinting that, maybe, also, the Jewish people had contributed in the same way? Jewish mythology was by far more well known than Norse, through the Old Testament and its influence on Christianity. So I don't see why Tolkien would want to make that a point of that.