4 ms·

Let's say I am staunchly anti-abortion. I believe any abortion is, unambiguously, murder - the killing of a human being, and, maybe even worse, a child. It's un

Let's say I am staunchly anti-abortion. I believe any abortion is, unambiguously, murder - the killing of a human being, and, maybe even worse, a child. It's unforgivable- goes against everything I believe in. I also have a friend named Sammy, who's a doctor. Last night I discovered Sammy got a new job at Planned Parenthood, where a significant part of her time will be spent performing surgical abortions. How many articles on the web should I read before I'm allowed to stop being friends with Sammy?

Blaiz0r 6y ago
Maybe the right thing to do is to change your opinions on anti-abortion, and come to understand Sammy better?
- lorenzhs 6y ago
  In that example yes, but are you really telling me that I should change my views on whether it's okay for governments to hack journalists and activists to publicly smear them and arrest their sources?
  - aronpye 6y ago
    Nope, but you should judge individuals on their individual actions
    - profmonocle 6y ago
      How is choosing to work for a company that sells surveillance software to despotic governments not an "individual action"?
    - Veen 6y ago
      It's an interesting position but one with unpleasant implications. Do you think it is morally wrong to work for, say, a terrorist organization planning a chemical weapons attack if all you do is manage procurement for them — you don't make chemical weapons or use them, you just make phone calls and manage a few spreadsheets. Also, do you have the same feeling for the reverse situation? If instead of being an employee, you're the boss. You're aware that your employees are doing something morally wrong and you do nothing to stop them, but you aren't doing it yourself. Do you have any responsibility? In the ethics of war, there is the concept of command responsibility[0], where leaders are responsible for the actions of people under their command. Do you think that is a bad doctrine because the leaders aren't the ones shooting people? No one dies through their individual actions even if their subordinates commit war crimes. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_responsibility
    - cycomanic 6y ago
      But choosing to work for a company who helps authoritan governments to prosecute journalists and dissidents is an action, and I will judge you for it.
- throwaway0a5e 6y ago
  Regardless of how one feels about abortion, or whatever the issue at hand is, "just change your morals so that whatever your friends do is ok" is not a solution at scale.
- bobthechef 6y ago
  Or maybe the right thing to do is to try to help Sammy see the evil she is committing. That could involve a Socratic approach that will help uncover the underpinnings of her position. If that fails and Sammy either obstinately refuses to see or for some reason cannot see, then it makes sense to part ways. You gave it a shot, you tried being charitable, but you ultimately cannot force another to accept the truth, nor should you want to. Everyone is morally responsible for his or her own views at the end of the day.
nec4b 6y ago
If you found out about Sammy's new job from a blog post on the internet, maybe you should give him the benefit of the doubt and ask him about it in person before ending your friendship.

Blaiz0r 6y ago

Maybe the right thing to do is to change your opinions on anti-abortion, and come to understand Sammy better?

lorenzhs 6y ago
In that example yes, but are you really telling me that I should change my views on whether it's okay for governments to hack journalists and activists to publicly smear them and arrest their sources?
- aronpye 6y ago
  Nope, but you should judge individuals on their individual actions
  - profmonocle 6y ago
    How is choosing to work for a company that sells surveillance software to despotic governments not an "individual action"?
  - Veen 6y ago
    It's an interesting position but one with unpleasant implications. Do you think it is morally wrong to work for, say, a terrorist organization planning a chemical weapons attack if all you do is manage procurement for them — you don't make chemical weapons or use them, you just make phone calls and manage a few spreadsheets. Also, do you have the same feeling for the reverse situation? If instead of being an employee, you're the boss. You're aware that your employees are doing something morally wrong and you do nothing to stop them, but you aren't doing it yourself. Do you have any responsibility? In the ethics of war, there is the concept of command responsibility[0], where leaders are responsible for the actions of people under their command. Do you think that is a bad doctrine because the leaders aren't the ones shooting people? No one dies through their individual actions even if their subordinates commit war crimes. [0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_responsibility https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Command_responsibility
  - cycomanic 6y ago
    But choosing to work for a company who helps authoritan governments to prosecute journalists and dissidents is an action, and I will judge you for it.
throwaway0a5e 6y ago
Regardless of how one feels about abortion, or whatever the issue at hand is, "just change your morals so that whatever your friends do is ok" is not a solution at scale.
bobthechef 6y ago
Or maybe the right thing to do is to try to help Sammy see the evil she is committing. That could involve a Socratic approach that will help uncover the underpinnings of her position. If that fails and Sammy either obstinately refuses to see or for some reason cannot see, then it makes sense to part ways. You gave it a shot, you tried being charitable, but you ultimately cannot force another to accept the truth, nor should you want to. Everyone is morally responsible for his or her own views at the end of the day.

nec4b 6y ago

If you found out about Sammy's new job from a blog post on the internet, maybe you should give him the benefit of the doubt and ask him about it in person before ending your friendship.