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Ok, so I want to make something clear to the (smart but mostly not "in-the-know" about NSO) HN crowd. Let's say you're a Mexican drug lord or Saudi prince. You

by inglor 6y ago

Ok, so I want to make something clear to the (smart but mostly not "in-the-know" about NSO) HN crowd. Let's say you're a Mexican drug lord or Saudi prince. You know this tech exists and the US/Israeli/European governments use it. Then, you see this article, and see all the comments in the comment section about how competent, scary and balance-changing the technology is. Basically: I think these pieces are bought for and paid by NSO through a PR firm, but you are not the target. When we leave comments like "NSO's tech is so good it has to be regulated!" or "NSO's tech is dangerous!" we are playing directly into the PR firm's clever hands. It's like an article about how good the AR-15 or the F-35 are. Obviously to me (and most of the readers) it's mostly "why are we focusing on technology of death" but we are not the target.

kavalg 6y ago
What you are saying makes a lot of sense. Then does it mean that the NSO capabilities are not quite as "advertised"?
- inglor 6y ago
  Of course, NSO and other players in that field can do much, much, much more than advertised to the media. Remember, the vast majority of people working for NSO worked for Israeli and US intelligence bodies. They serve in the 8200 unit doing malware analysis trailed by the NSA and then go work for NSO on the same sort of technology. (If you want to get an idea of how much, I recommend "Permanent Record" but if you don't like Snowden then check out how far ahead intelligence bodies were _historically_ compared to public knowledge - WW2 crypto being a good analogy) This lets the US government (and the Israeli government in turn) to make money off the technology without going through the same international regulatory systems. The US government (or Israeli government) can stop companies like NSO in a single decision but they are not since it is making them money. It's up to us (the citizens) to pressure them to do so and to promote security best practices and work on better tools to make it harder to breach peoples' privacy.
  - kavalg 6y ago
    Thanks for your through reply. My question was more in line with enterprise PR/sales. More precisely, to what extent does such a PR activity drive sales for NSO. In my early engineering career I did enterprise pre-sales for two different companies and we always relied on more direct touch points with potential customers (e.g. doing seminars, workshops).
oars 6y ago
Who would you say the NSO are actually targeting when they release articles like this?
- inglor 6y ago
  I'm not sure this particular article is paid for by NSO but there is a fierce competition in this space and NSO are just one player. As far as I know (I really don't, just rumors) NSO's tool is the best one but also the priciest. So arguably if I am a target audience (like a national security agency) an article like this outlines the competence of NSO / Pegasus.

by inglor 6y ago

kavalg 6y ago

What you are saying makes a lot of sense. Then does it mean that the NSO capabilities are not quite as "advertised"?

inglor 6y ago
Of course, NSO and other players in that field can do much, much, much more than advertised to the media. Remember, the vast majority of people working for NSO worked for Israeli and US intelligence bodies. They serve in the 8200 unit doing malware analysis trailed by the NSA and then go work for NSO on the same sort of technology. (If you want to get an idea of how much, I recommend "Permanent Record" but if you don't like Snowden then check out how far ahead intelligence bodies were _historically_ compared to public knowledge - WW2 crypto being a good analogy) This lets the US government (and the Israeli government in turn) to make money off the technology without going through the same international regulatory systems. The US government (or Israeli government) can stop companies like NSO in a single decision but they are not since it is making them money. It's up to us (the citizens) to pressure them to do so and to promote security best practices and work on better tools to make it harder to breach peoples' privacy.
- kavalg 6y ago
  Thanks for your through reply. My question was more in line with enterprise PR/sales. More precisely, to what extent does such a PR activity drive sales for NSO. In my early engineering career I did enterprise pre-sales for two different companies and we always relied on more direct touch points with potential customers (e.g. doing seminars, workshops).

oars 6y ago

Who would you say the NSO are actually targeting when they release articles like this?

inglor 6y ago
I'm not sure this particular article is paid for by NSO but there is a fierce competition in this space and NSO are just one player. As far as I know (I really don't, just rumors) NSO's tool is the best one but also the priciest. So arguably if I am a target audience (like a national security agency) an article like this outlines the competence of NSO / Pegasus.