7 ms·

Brazil Suspends WhatsApp Payments

89 points by namanaggarwal 6y ago

sschueller 6y ago
Why doesn't Facebook do it in the US? Too much opposition from the large payment processing lobby?
- thalesmello 6y ago
  They already have Facebook Pay on messenger, and WhatsApp is mostly unheard of. Maybe it doesn't make sense to launch it in the USA. WhatsApp is however overwhelmingly used in Brazil, and highly lacking good Venmo-like apps. I did not like the Brazilian Fed getting in the way with regulations before it even launched. Sends the wrong message to foreign investors considering Brazil.
  - jamisteven 6y ago
    Mostly unheard of?! Besides my parents, I dont know anyone that doesnt use WhatsApp in the US.
    - thalesmello 6y ago
      Most people I interact with in the US actually use SMS or iMessage, that's why I have hold this view. It might be a bit dated though.
      - Barrin92 6y ago
        yes I think it's somewhat dated. I travel (well traveled) to the US frequently and there was basically no Whatsapp user I met. (compared to 50% of the pop. In Germany). Apparently now there are almost 70 million users in the US. It really always baffled me why Americans were using text messaging for so long (and complaining about lack of encryption and so on)
        TMWNN 6y ago
        >It really always baffled me why Americans were using text messaging for so long Because our mobile plans gave us gigantic buckets (thousands of SMS messages per month, then unlimited) before most other countries. It was the lack of such that drove the growth of WhatsApp and similar systems elsewhere. >(and complaining about lack of encryption and so on) Yeah, no one does that, any more than people complain about the lack of encrypted email. (Yes, yes, it's possible to do both. My point is that most people don't bother in the first place.)
        moooo99 6y ago
        > (and complaining about lack of encryption and so on) Well most people here in Germany constantly complain about the lack of privacy thanks to Facebook and still don't mind using WhatsApp. I haven't been to the US myself, but I have met a lot of internation students from the US and Canada. All of them were mainly using either iMessage or Facebook Messenger, they were really surprised why everyone is using WhatsApp here. Anyways, actually privacy focused apps like Threema or Signal don't seem to be popular anywhere, so I don't think there is a significant difference
    - driverdan 6y ago
      I've never used WhatsApp and as far as I know neither do my friends. I've never had anyone request to use it either.
    - NineStarPoint 6y ago
      Most people I know only use WhatsApp specifically with friends who came from/are in other countries. Even then I personally know more people who use LINE than WhatsApp for some reason. Internal to the US, very few people I know use WhatsApp for group chats. (I expect its an age thing though, and that younger people are more likely to be using WhatsApp).
    - ta17711771 6y ago
      Less than 10% of my network on WhatsApp.
  - moon2 6y ago
    > and highly lacking good Venmo-like apps There's a few popular apps that allow you to share payments in Brazil, such as: PicPay Rappi Mercado Pago
- JumpCrisscross 6y ago
  > Why doesn't Facebook do it in the US? Facebook just got bloodied by regulators and the Congress over Libra. U.S. payment rules are also quite strict. Brazil’s are too, but Facebook was comfortable ignoring those. > Too much opposition from the large payment processing lobby? If payments regulation worked like that, Stripe and PayPal and Venmo and Apple Pay wouldn’t exist.
  - cowpig 6y ago
    > If payments regulation worked like that, Stripe and PayPal and Venmo and Apple Pay wouldn’t exist. I don't know how much of the complex regulatory barriers to the payments industry are designed by industry insiders with an explicit aim to stifle competition, but the fact that there are only a small number of actors in the space indicates that it's far from a "free market". You can have a corrupt market full of lobby-influenced regulatory barriers and still have more than a pure monopoly. Sometimes you have a small number of competitors, or 1-2 firms with the lion's share of the market. Sometimes you have a cartel. Sometimes newcomers even break through regulatory barriers through innovation! All that to say that your evidence doesn't do much to support your claim.
    - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
      > it's far from a "free market" This goalpost was never set. The original assertion was industry insiders blocked Facebook from launching WhatsApp Payments in the U.S. Stripe and Venmo and Apple are valid counter-arguments to that claim. Barriers exist. But if those companies could surmount them, Facebook, with its massive lobbying arms, could as well. The explanation is thus a bad one for the observation.
- moon2 6y ago
  The so-called "super apps", such as Rappi, are getting widely popular in Latin America. Maybe Facebook saw it as an opportunity for turning WhatsApp into their own super app. It's also an opportunity to kill competition, since almost everybody uses WhatsApp.
f00zz 6y ago
No surprises, the country is deeply hostile to capitalism and innovation. Brazil is not poor by accident. Too bad, as this could have been a boon to small businesses.
- victords 6y ago
  That's quite a jump to conclusion... I don't think that the issue here is Brazil's position on capitalism or innovation, there are other companies providing similar services there. The issue seems to be a juggernaut company like Facebook, with all the flaws that it has, trying to enter the payment sector of a developing country without regulation or notice.
  - f00zz 6y ago
    > a juggernaut company like Facebook More likely Brazil's central bank doesn't want competition with its own payment system (Pix).
    - m1aw 6y ago
      But there's also other companies/services like Picpay and stuff right?
      - rescbr 6y ago
        There are, and they are registered as payment processors or e-wallets. Facebook isn't.
    - Anarch157a 6y ago
      The Central Bank wants a system that's interoperable, so in certain ways, Pix promotes competition.
  - Dacod 6y ago
    Honestly! It kind of reminds me of Marc Andreessen's "Anti-colonialism has been economically catastrophic for the Indian people for decades. Why stop now?” comment.
vertis 6y ago
Paywall: https://outline.com/thcKSd https://outline.com/thcKSd
- iKlsR 6y ago
  Press Esc within a second of loading the page to kill the paywall. Works for many other news sites that rely heavily on JS and don't partially fetch previews but just try to hide the content.

89 points by namanaggarwal 6y ago

sschueller 6y ago

Why doesn't Facebook do it in the US? Too much opposition from the large payment processing lobby?

thalesmello 6y ago
They already have Facebook Pay on messenger, and WhatsApp is mostly unheard of. Maybe it doesn't make sense to launch it in the USA. WhatsApp is however overwhelmingly used in Brazil, and highly lacking good Venmo-like apps. I did not like the Brazilian Fed getting in the way with regulations before it even launched. Sends the wrong message to foreign investors considering Brazil.
- jamisteven 6y ago
  Mostly unheard of?! Besides my parents, I dont know anyone that doesnt use WhatsApp in the US.
  - thalesmello 6y ago
    Most people I interact with in the US actually use SMS or iMessage, that's why I have hold this view. It might be a bit dated though.
    - Barrin92 6y ago
      yes I think it's somewhat dated. I travel (well traveled) to the US frequently and there was basically no Whatsapp user I met. (compared to 50% of the pop. In Germany). Apparently now there are almost 70 million users in the US. It really always baffled me why Americans were using text messaging for so long (and complaining about lack of encryption and so on)
      - TMWNN 6y ago
        >It really always baffled me why Americans were using text messaging for so long Because our mobile plans gave us gigantic buckets (thousands of SMS messages per month, then unlimited) before most other countries. It was the lack of such that drove the growth of WhatsApp and similar systems elsewhere. >(and complaining about lack of encryption and so on) Yeah, no one does that, any more than people complain about the lack of encrypted email. (Yes, yes, it's possible to do both. My point is that most people don't bother in the first place.)
      - moooo99 6y ago
        > (and complaining about lack of encryption and so on) Well most people here in Germany constantly complain about the lack of privacy thanks to Facebook and still don't mind using WhatsApp. I haven't been to the US myself, but I have met a lot of internation students from the US and Canada. All of them were mainly using either iMessage or Facebook Messenger, they were really surprised why everyone is using WhatsApp here. Anyways, actually privacy focused apps like Threema or Signal don't seem to be popular anywhere, so I don't think there is a significant difference
  - driverdan 6y ago
    I've never used WhatsApp and as far as I know neither do my friends. I've never had anyone request to use it either.
  - NineStarPoint 6y ago
    Most people I know only use WhatsApp specifically with friends who came from/are in other countries. Even then I personally know more people who use LINE than WhatsApp for some reason. Internal to the US, very few people I know use WhatsApp for group chats. (I expect its an age thing though, and that younger people are more likely to be using WhatsApp).
  - ta17711771 6y ago
    Less than 10% of my network on WhatsApp.
- moon2 6y ago
  > and highly lacking good Venmo-like apps There's a few popular apps that allow you to share payments in Brazil, such as: PicPay Rappi Mercado Pago
JumpCrisscross 6y ago
> Why doesn't Facebook do it in the US? Facebook just got bloodied by regulators and the Congress over Libra. U.S. payment rules are also quite strict. Brazil’s are too, but Facebook was comfortable ignoring those. > Too much opposition from the large payment processing lobby? If payments regulation worked like that, Stripe and PayPal and Venmo and Apple Pay wouldn’t exist.
- cowpig 6y ago
  > If payments regulation worked like that, Stripe and PayPal and Venmo and Apple Pay wouldn’t exist. I don't know how much of the complex regulatory barriers to the payments industry are designed by industry insiders with an explicit aim to stifle competition, but the fact that there are only a small number of actors in the space indicates that it's far from a "free market". You can have a corrupt market full of lobby-influenced regulatory barriers and still have more than a pure monopoly. Sometimes you have a small number of competitors, or 1-2 firms with the lion's share of the market. Sometimes you have a cartel. Sometimes newcomers even break through regulatory barriers through innovation! All that to say that your evidence doesn't do much to support your claim.
  - JumpCrisscross 6y ago
    > it's far from a "free market" This goalpost was never set. The original assertion was industry insiders blocked Facebook from launching WhatsApp Payments in the U.S. Stripe and Venmo and Apple are valid counter-arguments to that claim. Barriers exist. But if those companies could surmount them, Facebook, with its massive lobbying arms, could as well. The explanation is thus a bad one for the observation.
moon2 6y ago
The so-called "super apps", such as Rappi, are getting widely popular in Latin America. Maybe Facebook saw it as an opportunity for turning WhatsApp into their own super app. It's also an opportunity to kill competition, since almost everybody uses WhatsApp.

f00zz 6y ago

No surprises, the country is deeply hostile to capitalism and innovation. Brazil is not poor by accident. Too bad, as this could have been a boon to small businesses.

victords 6y ago
That's quite a jump to conclusion... I don't think that the issue here is Brazil's position on capitalism or innovation, there are other companies providing similar services there. The issue seems to be a juggernaut company like Facebook, with all the flaws that it has, trying to enter the payment sector of a developing country without regulation or notice.
- f00zz 6y ago
  > a juggernaut company like Facebook More likely Brazil's central bank doesn't want competition with its own payment system (Pix).
  - m1aw 6y ago
    But there's also other companies/services like Picpay and stuff right?
    - rescbr 6y ago
      There are, and they are registered as payment processors or e-wallets. Facebook isn't.
  - Anarch157a 6y ago
    The Central Bank wants a system that's interoperable, so in certain ways, Pix promotes competition.
- Dacod 6y ago
  Honestly! It kind of reminds me of Marc Andreessen's "Anti-colonialism has been economically catastrophic for the Indian people for decades. Why stop now?” comment.

vertis 6y ago

Paywall: https://outline.com/thcKSd https://outline.com/thcKSd

iKlsR 6y ago
Press Esc within a second of loading the page to kill the paywall. Works for many other news sites that rely heavily on JS and don't partially fetch previews but just try to hide the content.