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I don't think this quote refutes the author's point. Tolkien was vehemently denying that his works were allegorical, in the sense that one should not look for d

I don't think this quote refutes the author's point. Tolkien was vehemently denying that his works were allegorical, in the sense that one should not look for deeper, hidden meaning in the LOTR or any other tale set in Middle-Earth. But this article simply describes how Tolkien (allegedly) tried to compose a stronger English mythology, then eventually abandoned the idea and settled for the purely fictional setting that Middle-Earth is. Don't know if this description is factual, but if it is, it wouldn't mean that Tolkien's work is allegorical.

qznc 6y ago
Tolkien rejected the idea to compare Sauron and Hitler. He rejected that LOTR was his way to handle his war trauma. His biggest argument is that most ideas existed before WW2.
- jacobush 6y ago
  Wouldn't it have been WW1 he would have processed? Both because he was in it and because it was the first industrialised war. Mordor makes one think of trenches and devilish factories.
  - goto11 6y ago
    > Mordor makes one think of trenches and devilish factories. Tolkien hates you now! But seriously, he was open about how WWI influenced his writing. I think his rant against allegories is more about direct allegorical reading like "Mordor is supposed to symbolize WWI trenches etc."
    - eredengrin 6y ago
      I totally agree here. I think there's a difference between recognizing where Tolkien's inspiration came from vs saying that an element which took inspiration from elsewhere was necessarily meant to specifically represent that thing in his work.
- pvaldes 6y ago
  Maybe, but Lord of the Rings is still basically a 1000 pages metaphor about experiencing "The War" and homesick. If is is so good is because all is mounted over a frame of reality that makes all to fall in place and supports the action A few examples can be seen when characters walking for days start walking by the grass at the borders of the path, or to describe fields without cattle in wartime.
kergonath 6y ago
The fact that Tolkien wanted to create the equivalent of Nordic mythology for England is very well documented. I don’t have the link off hand, but there are several of his letters on the subject. It is transparent in his drafts from the Book of Lost Tales as well. I don’t think he gave up on that, he was just lost in his sprawling creation. Interestingly, Leaf by Niggle is a perfect allegory for that.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > I don’t think he gave up on that He wrote that he did: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/135952/did-tolkien-abandon-his-goal-to-make-an-english-mythology https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/135952/did-tolkien...
  - kergonath 6y ago
    Fair enough.

qznc 6y ago

Tolkien rejected the idea to compare Sauron and Hitler. He rejected that LOTR was his way to handle his war trauma. His biggest argument is that most ideas existed before WW2.

jacobush 6y ago
Wouldn't it have been WW1 he would have processed? Both because he was in it and because it was the first industrialised war. Mordor makes one think of trenches and devilish factories.
- goto11 6y ago
  > Mordor makes one think of trenches and devilish factories. Tolkien hates you now! But seriously, he was open about how WWI influenced his writing. I think his rant against allegories is more about direct allegorical reading like "Mordor is supposed to symbolize WWI trenches etc."
  - eredengrin 6y ago
    I totally agree here. I think there's a difference between recognizing where Tolkien's inspiration came from vs saying that an element which took inspiration from elsewhere was necessarily meant to specifically represent that thing in his work.
pvaldes 6y ago
Maybe, but Lord of the Rings is still basically a 1000 pages metaphor about experiencing "The War" and homesick. If is is so good is because all is mounted over a frame of reality that makes all to fall in place and supports the action A few examples can be seen when characters walking for days start walking by the grass at the borders of the path, or to describe fields without cattle in wartime.

kergonath 6y ago

The fact that Tolkien wanted to create the equivalent of Nordic mythology for England is very well documented. I don’t have the link off hand, but there are several of his letters on the subject. It is transparent in his drafts from the Book of Lost Tales as well. I don’t think he gave up on that, he was just lost in his sprawling creation. Interestingly, Leaf by Niggle is a perfect allegory for that.

dragonwriter 6y ago
> I don’t think he gave up on that He wrote that he did: https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/135952/did-tolkien-abandon-his-goal-to-make-an-english-mythology https://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/135952/did-tolkien...
- kergonath 6y ago
  Fair enough.