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> A baby is not born with the knowledge of body movement Anyone who's witnessed a birth can tell you this is wrong.

inetknght 6y ago
Perhaps born is the wrong word. That freshly-born baby did have nine months of gestation during which it's undoubtedly been exploring how to move about and sense its very limited environment.
- TechBro8615 6y ago
  “Pushed to prod”
- redisman 6y ago
  Right but what it's doing in the womb is also lots of moving around ("kicking" and "jumping") so I just don't think this argument makes much sense to anyone who has experienced having a baby.
  - inetknght 6y ago
    You don't think moving around is a normal part of a brain learning to move and sense?
yongjik 6y ago
Eh, I've seen my baby sucking on its thumb, and then the baby jerks and the thumb goes away, baby cries, somehow the wild flailing gets the thumb back to the mouth. Baby happy again, sucking on its own thumb. I agree that we are not born a blank slate, but at the same time, there's a lot of knowledge missing on a newborn baby.
- esperent 6y ago
  Even if the baby has trouble getting the thumb into the mouth at first, it has no trouble sucking it. Or any of thousands of other instinctive behaviors.
  - dkersten 6y ago
    Yep, the baby knows how to cry when not sucking it’s thumb for example, and not cry when its content.
taneq 6y ago
They're capable of movement, I wouldn't say they have knowledge of it though. It can take them a while to even figure out suckling, and deliberate directed movements can take a month or two. Until then they're pretty much flailing randomly and gathering training data.
- InfiniteRand 6y ago
  One thing that makes babies hard to analyze is that it is difficult to tell what they do not know how to do vs what they are not physically able to do reliably vs unlearning coping mechanisms for their limited abilities once they start being able to. Failing randomly could certainly be trying out different movements, but it could also be lack of hand eye coordination making it difficult to apply instinctual knowledge
  - taneq 6y ago
    True, but I think it’s fair to assume that when they’re happily sucking on a finger, suddenly rip their hand away from their face, and then punch themselves in the face repeatedly before starting to cry, that is not deliberate.

Perhaps born is the wrong word. That freshly-born baby did have nine months of gestation during which it's undoubtedly been exploring how to move about and sense its very limited environment.

TechBro8615 6y ago
“Pushed to prod”
redisman 6y ago
Right but what it's doing in the womb is also lots of moving around ("kicking" and "jumping") so I just don't think this argument makes much sense to anyone who has experienced having a baby.
- inetknght 6y ago
  You don't think moving around is a normal part of a brain learning to move and sense?

yongjik 6y ago

Eh, I've seen my baby sucking on its thumb, and then the baby jerks and the thumb goes away, baby cries, somehow the wild flailing gets the thumb back to the mouth. Baby happy again, sucking on its own thumb. I agree that we are not born a blank slate, but at the same time, there's a lot of knowledge missing on a newborn baby.

esperent 6y ago
Even if the baby has trouble getting the thumb into the mouth at first, it has no trouble sucking it. Or any of thousands of other instinctive behaviors.
- dkersten 6y ago
  Yep, the baby knows how to cry when not sucking it’s thumb for example, and not cry when its content.

taneq 6y ago

They're capable of movement, I wouldn't say they have knowledge of it though. It can take them a while to even figure out suckling, and deliberate directed movements can take a month or two. Until then they're pretty much flailing randomly and gathering training data.

InfiniteRand 6y ago
One thing that makes babies hard to analyze is that it is difficult to tell what they do not know how to do vs what they are not physically able to do reliably vs unlearning coping mechanisms for their limited abilities once they start being able to. Failing randomly could certainly be trying out different movements, but it could also be lack of hand eye coordination making it difficult to apply instinctual knowledge
- taneq 6y ago
  True, but I think it’s fair to assume that when they’re happily sucking on a finger, suddenly rip their hand away from their face, and then punch themselves in the face repeatedly before starting to cry, that is not deliberate.