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you cannot eradicate this disease unless you turn the nation into China. The viable model is the Swedish model, schools are open, restaurants are open, nobody

you cannot eradicate this disease unless you turn the nation into China. The viable model is the Swedish model, schools are open, restaurants are open, nobody wears a mask. What they do is voluntarily keep more distance between people. That's it. that will do it. The sky has not fallen, they are exactly on the same track as the US.

triceratops 6y ago
> you cannot eradicate this disease unless you turn the nation into China. Or India? 4x the population, 1/5 the deaths so far. Although they'll catch up eventually - this disease is simply too contagious. But they have a national strategy, everybody is making plays from the same playbook. > nobody wears a mask Why not though? If it's been proven to reduce transmission, it seems stupid to not do it. > that will do it. All that's done is take the US to the top in lives lost to this disease. If that's where we wanted to end up then mission accomplished, I guess. > The sky has not fallen, they are exactly on the same track as the US. See above.
- salmon30salmon 6y ago
  We also have a much higher life expectancy than India. One of the theories as to why Africa has not been hit is that they have far fewer old people. Hoisted by our own petard.
  - glofish 6y ago
    Yeah like Burundi. They ran 300 test. Only 1 death attributed to COVID, making Burundi the country with the fewest deaths per population.
- glofish 6y ago
  India? You think they have the disease under control? The US is at the top for two reasons, huge and extremely varied country, lots of testing and accountability. China most likely has had more deaths than the US, they just simply chose not report it, ergo they are all good (and that's what Trump wishes the US could do).
  - yibg 6y ago
    There maybe some merit to the claim that China is under reporting, but I haven’t seen any claim that they are under reporting by that much. Deaths on this scale is hard to hide, even in a state controlled environment. Large cities outside of Wuhan have no seen this. I have colleagues and friends in the big cities and I haven’t heard of anyone catching let alone dying of covid.
  - triceratops 6y ago
    > India? You think they have the disease under control? I said they've had a plan and they've tried to fight. Exhibit A: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/the-coronavirus-slayer-how-keralas-rock-star-health-minister-helped-save-it-from-covid-19 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/the-coronaviru... It'll ultimately overcome India, but it won't be because they waved the white flag like the US appears to have done. > China most likely has had more deaths than the US, China would have to underreport deaths by 20x to approach the American death toll. Covering up that many deaths doesn't seem possible. It makes me feel like you're just arguing in bad faith. And even if China had exactly as many deaths as the US, they'd still be 3.5x better on a per capita basis. Despite being more densely populated, poorer, and likely having a population with more pre-existing respiratory issues due to more pollution. That's how poorly the US has performed in this whole affair.
MengerSponge 6y ago
This is not true. New Zealand has done an exemplary job. Taiwan has done a fine job. Hong Kong? Japan? South Korea? All democracies. All competent. Sweden's seen way more deaths than its neighbors, and being on the same track as the US should be an embarrassment here. Also, no, that will not do it. That will see a huge fraction of the population infected. Adding masks would help a lot, though.
- kmlx 6y ago
  new zealand's total population is less than nyc. also an island 5h flight from australia. NZ somehow always comes up... HK never locked up as hard as NZ or Spain or Italy even thou it's a city almost double the size of the country NZ with 420 times the density.
- salmon30salmon 6y ago
  NZ is an island with two big cities, doesn't count. Taiwan is also an island. So is Japan. HK is one technically, I guess. But not really. South Korea is basically an island, since they have a completely closed border with their only land neighbor. Maybe the ability to control people coming in and out is more of a commonality than their responses? That is considering their responses looked _nothing alike_. NZ and Japan are basically as opposite as you can get in regards to a response.
  - refurb 6y ago
    Vietnam has 90M people, a massive land border and only 350 cases (no community spread for 6 weeks now). They are testing like crazy, so it’s not because they aren’t catching them. How did they do it? All borders closed. Quarantine at home? Well, we’ll post someone to keep an eye on you. Not following the rules? We have a quarantine camp that will work better. Someone infected on the same floor of your apartment building? Everyone is locked down for 24 hrs (can’t leave your unit). Floor is disinfected and everyone tested. Vietnam just basically went full throttle using every public health measure they could.
    - virmundi 6y ago
m4rtink 6y ago
The Swedish model is only viable as long as you don't mind killing 4700 extra people. Sweden and Czech Republic has about the same population, there were strict lockdown measures in the Czech Republic and not much at all in Sweden. So far 336 people have died in the Czech Republic due to Covid-19, daily cases are ~50. For comaparison Sweden has 5053 dead with daily cases about 500-600. That does not look like something viable & I'm not sure how are they gonna get out of this with some many daily case & how many more people will have to needlessly die.
- austhrow743 6y ago
  Why are you comparing them to the Czech Republic when the commenter was comparing them to the US and saying the US should model them? They're not saying the Czech Republic should model them.
- virmundi 6y ago
  The Swedish model was exacerbated for the same reason the NYC was. You can’t put old people with the disease in lock down with other old people. You’ll quickly kill them.
  - dehrmann 6y ago
    When people criticize Sweden, they usually quote the top-line number, leaving out that Sweden's admitted failures were in protecting the elderly and outreach to at-risk immigrant communities.
  - m4rtink 6y ago
    Of course you can't do that - anyone infected needs to be isolated and people who were in contact with them as well. If you want to protect old people (and everyone of us will get old eventually) is to make sure they won't get infected, simple as that. To achieve that, many care homes here locked down much earlier than the state wide lockdown (and in some cases were already in annual flu related lockdown, same thing for many hospitals). In quite a few cases, the care personnel even volunteered to basically camp out at the site to eliminate any possibility of getting the infection in from their homes. This has been quite effective. The few cases where the infection did get in were pretty brutal, which validates the rather drastic steps taken.

triceratops 6y ago

> you cannot eradicate this disease unless you turn the nation into China. Or India? 4x the population, 1/5 the deaths so far. Although they'll catch up eventually - this disease is simply too contagious. But they have a national strategy, everybody is making plays from the same playbook. > nobody wears a mask Why not though? If it's been proven to reduce transmission, it seems stupid to not do it. > that will do it. All that's done is take the US to the top in lives lost to this disease. If that's where we wanted to end up then mission accomplished, I guess. > The sky has not fallen, they are exactly on the same track as the US. See above.

salmon30salmon 6y ago
We also have a much higher life expectancy than India. One of the theories as to why Africa has not been hit is that they have far fewer old people. Hoisted by our own petard.
- glofish 6y ago
  Yeah like Burundi. They ran 300 test. Only 1 death attributed to COVID, making Burundi the country with the fewest deaths per population.
glofish 6y ago
India? You think they have the disease under control? The US is at the top for two reasons, huge and extremely varied country, lots of testing and accountability. China most likely has had more deaths than the US, they just simply chose not report it, ergo they are all good (and that's what Trump wishes the US could do).
- yibg 6y ago
  There maybe some merit to the claim that China is under reporting, but I haven’t seen any claim that they are under reporting by that much. Deaths on this scale is hard to hide, even in a state controlled environment. Large cities outside of Wuhan have no seen this. I have colleagues and friends in the big cities and I haven’t heard of anyone catching let alone dying of covid.
- triceratops 6y ago
  > India? You think they have the disease under control? I said they've had a plan and they've tried to fight. Exhibit A: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/the-coronavirus-slayer-how-keralas-rock-star-health-minister-helped-save-it-from-covid-19 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/14/the-coronaviru... It'll ultimately overcome India, but it won't be because they waved the white flag like the US appears to have done. > China most likely has had more deaths than the US, China would have to underreport deaths by 20x to approach the American death toll. Covering up that many deaths doesn't seem possible. It makes me feel like you're just arguing in bad faith. And even if China had exactly as many deaths as the US, they'd still be 3.5x better on a per capita basis. Despite being more densely populated, poorer, and likely having a population with more pre-existing respiratory issues due to more pollution. That's how poorly the US has performed in this whole affair.

MengerSponge 6y ago

This is not true. New Zealand has done an exemplary job. Taiwan has done a fine job. Hong Kong? Japan? South Korea? All democracies. All competent. Sweden's seen way more deaths than its neighbors, and being on the same track as the US should be an embarrassment here. Also, no, that will not do it. That will see a huge fraction of the population infected. Adding masks would help a lot, though.

kmlx 6y ago
new zealand's total population is less than nyc. also an island 5h flight from australia. NZ somehow always comes up... HK never locked up as hard as NZ or Spain or Italy even thou it's a city almost double the size of the country NZ with 420 times the density.
salmon30salmon 6y ago
NZ is an island with two big cities, doesn't count. Taiwan is also an island. So is Japan. HK is one technically, I guess. But not really. South Korea is basically an island, since they have a completely closed border with their only land neighbor. Maybe the ability to control people coming in and out is more of a commonality than their responses? That is considering their responses looked _nothing alike_. NZ and Japan are basically as opposite as you can get in regards to a response.
- refurb 6y ago
  Vietnam has 90M people, a massive land border and only 350 cases (no community spread for 6 weeks now). They are testing like crazy, so it’s not because they aren’t catching them. How did they do it? All borders closed. Quarantine at home? Well, we’ll post someone to keep an eye on you. Not following the rules? We have a quarantine camp that will work better. Someone infected on the same floor of your apartment building? Everyone is locked down for 24 hrs (can’t leave your unit). Floor is disinfected and everyone tested. Vietnam just basically went full throttle using every public health measure they could.
  - virmundi 6y ago

m4rtink 6y ago

The Swedish model is only viable as long as you don't mind killing 4700 extra people. Sweden and Czech Republic has about the same population, there were strict lockdown measures in the Czech Republic and not much at all in Sweden. So far 336 people have died in the Czech Republic due to Covid-19, daily cases are ~50. For comaparison Sweden has 5053 dead with daily cases about 500-600. That does not look like something viable & I'm not sure how are they gonna get out of this with some many daily case & how many more people will have to needlessly die.

austhrow743 6y ago
Why are you comparing them to the Czech Republic when the commenter was comparing them to the US and saying the US should model them? They're not saying the Czech Republic should model them.
virmundi 6y ago
The Swedish model was exacerbated for the same reason the NYC was. You can’t put old people with the disease in lock down with other old people. You’ll quickly kill them.
- dehrmann 6y ago
  When people criticize Sweden, they usually quote the top-line number, leaving out that Sweden's admitted failures were in protecting the elderly and outreach to at-risk immigrant communities.
- m4rtink 6y ago
  Of course you can't do that - anyone infected needs to be isolated and people who were in contact with them as well. If you want to protect old people (and everyone of us will get old eventually) is to make sure they won't get infected, simple as that. To achieve that, many care homes here locked down much earlier than the state wide lockdown (and in some cases were already in annual flu related lockdown, same thing for many hospitals). In quite a few cases, the care personnel even volunteered to basically camp out at the site to eliminate any possibility of getting the infection in from their homes. This has been quite effective. The few cases where the infection did get in were pretty brutal, which validates the rather drastic steps taken.