5 ms·

I take issue with your framing of the police as criminals because it misses the point; the police are not criminals, the law and the legal establishment fully s

by flarg 6y ago

I take issue with your framing of the police as criminals because it misses the point; the police are not criminals, the law and the legal establishment fully supports their actions. Those actions are institutionally racist as they are intended to be. There are no bad apples here, it's the barrel that is rotten.

thayne 6y ago
On the contrary. Many of these actions are illegal, sometimes even unconstitutional. There may be other laws that make it difficult, or impossible to actually enforce laws against police brutality, but that doesn't change the fact that police officers are breaking the law.
- washadjeffmad 6y ago
  'Criminals' is better be read as enemies or threats. It's used as a catch-all term for people who would do you and your loved ones harm without remorse. If the tables were turned and the police were no longer the servants of the white community, how might that look? Patrol cars driving around suburbs at night blasting sirens then arresting people who came out to complain. Harassing middle class white dads mowing their lawns by telling them to stop and go inside, then escalating into one-sided physical altercations requiring reinforcements. Ticketing mom groups for loitering and trespassing for congregating to chat on sidewalks with baby strollers on front of their homes, or threatening them with CPS. Breaking into homes and shooting pets and family members of kids who brought home pot, or their neighbors if they show up at the wrong house. Who would these people call to complain to if no one else cared? How would these communities look after years of being afraid? Of having to accept that their lives were forfeit and losing loved ones to the police was just a fact of life? Unfortunately, we already know.
  - mcny 6y ago
    I think we know the answer. Look at the response to the opioid crisis versus the “war on drugs”.
- mcv 6y ago
  Technically illegal but still legally protected. It's the hypocrisy of law enforcement.
irjustin 6y ago
> There are no bad apples here I don't understand. You're saying that individual police members are not at fault for their actions? That the police institution is rotten (barrel) but stops at the individual officer (apple)? I 100% agree that the barrel is rotten, but there are plenty of bad individuals as a result of the barrel being rotten for so long. A way to test this, change the 'barrel' and see which 'apples' stick around. i.e. if all apples are good changing the barrel doesn't result in difference in apples just the apples' actions. We're already seeing #bluflu, walk outs, resignations because in some specific areas of the country, the barrel is being changed out piece by piece. I disagree that apples are not bad. Lots of them are. It'll be a painful transition, but it will be one for better if we can keep it up.
- arbitrary_name 6y ago
  No, the parent is saying that calling police criminals masks the fundamental twisted nature of the justice system. Judging by their words, they condemn the police as criminals, but also condemn a 'justice' system that allows their deeds to remain legal. The barrel is rotten, the apples are rotten, so let's throw it all out and try again, is how I interpret their statement.
  - irjustin 6y ago
    I mean you and I are saying the same thing it sounds like, but that sounds decidedly different than what the comment I was replying to was saying.
- mcv 6y ago
  Of course individual police officers are at fault, but it's also the entire system that is rotten. The system creates these rotten police officers, encourages and protects them, and allowed them to spread the rot.
- xg15 6y ago
  You're driving the metapthor too far, I honestly don't get your point. Are you're saying we shouldn't touch the institution of police and just replace the individual police members? To my knowledge, that is what has been done until now - and it evidently didn't work.

by flarg 6y ago

thayne 6y ago

On the contrary. Many of these actions are illegal, sometimes even unconstitutional. There may be other laws that make it difficult, or impossible to actually enforce laws against police brutality, but that doesn't change the fact that police officers are breaking the law.

washadjeffmad 6y ago
'Criminals' is better be read as enemies or threats. It's used as a catch-all term for people who would do you and your loved ones harm without remorse. If the tables were turned and the police were no longer the servants of the white community, how might that look? Patrol cars driving around suburbs at night blasting sirens then arresting people who came out to complain. Harassing middle class white dads mowing their lawns by telling them to stop and go inside, then escalating into one-sided physical altercations requiring reinforcements. Ticketing mom groups for loitering and trespassing for congregating to chat on sidewalks with baby strollers on front of their homes, or threatening them with CPS. Breaking into homes and shooting pets and family members of kids who brought home pot, or their neighbors if they show up at the wrong house. Who would these people call to complain to if no one else cared? How would these communities look after years of being afraid? Of having to accept that their lives were forfeit and losing loved ones to the police was just a fact of life? Unfortunately, we already know.
- mcny 6y ago
  I think we know the answer. Look at the response to the opioid crisis versus the “war on drugs”.
mcv 6y ago
Technically illegal but still legally protected. It's the hypocrisy of law enforcement.

irjustin 6y ago

> There are no bad apples here I don't understand. You're saying that individual police members are not at fault for their actions? That the police institution is rotten (barrel) but stops at the individual officer (apple)? I 100% agree that the barrel is rotten, but there are plenty of bad individuals as a result of the barrel being rotten for so long. A way to test this, change the 'barrel' and see which 'apples' stick around. i.e. if all apples are good changing the barrel doesn't result in difference in apples just the apples' actions. We're already seeing #bluflu, walk outs, resignations because in some specific areas of the country, the barrel is being changed out piece by piece. I disagree that apples are not bad. Lots of them are. It'll be a painful transition, but it will be one for better if we can keep it up.

arbitrary_name 6y ago
No, the parent is saying that calling police criminals masks the fundamental twisted nature of the justice system. Judging by their words, they condemn the police as criminals, but also condemn a 'justice' system that allows their deeds to remain legal. The barrel is rotten, the apples are rotten, so let's throw it all out and try again, is how I interpret their statement.
- irjustin 6y ago
  I mean you and I are saying the same thing it sounds like, but that sounds decidedly different than what the comment I was replying to was saying.
mcv 6y ago
Of course individual police officers are at fault, but it's also the entire system that is rotten. The system creates these rotten police officers, encourages and protects them, and allowed them to spread the rot.
xg15 6y ago
You're driving the metapthor too far, I honestly don't get your point. Are you're saying we shouldn't touch the institution of police and just replace the individual police members? To my knowledge, that is what has been done until now - and it evidently didn't work.