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> I literally can think of no reason I personally would want to do this If you personnaly care a little bit about the environment there is a pretty evident rea

> I literally can think of no reason I personally would want to do this If you personnaly care a little bit about the environment there is a pretty evident reason why being able to swap a single piece of hardware is better than replacing the whole unit because everything is soldered together. Right to repair would also mean that once your device goes out of guarantee you would have more options to get your device repaired for cheaper.

oneplane 6y ago
You assume that people have to throw away millions of laptops, but his comment (and mine) refer to the fact that a recent laptop works fine for 6+ years as-is. The lifecycle doesn't shorten but the need to toy with the innards has gone away for a lot of people.
- Voloskaya 6y ago
  > You assume that people have to throw away millions of laptops Hmm yes I do: https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1275100376350384132 https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1275100376350384132 Have you also never had anyone you know spilling liquid on their keyboard after the warranty expired? Or dropped it? So in the end yes, I am pretty sure that there are literal millions of devices being thrown away because repairing them is too expensive. Edit: I'll also add that in 6 years using a mac, Apple replaced my macbook entirely twice for some issue that you would hope could be fixed without throwing everything away. So, sure, the customer is happy because they got a brand new device. But personnally I would rather stick with my 1 year old device and reduce environmental impact.
  - oneplane 6y ago
    Those are not laptops, those are iPads, which weren't modular to begin with. Also, not broken, but locked, because the previous owner didn't unlock them before discarding them. Are there millions of devices that get thrown away in general? Sure. But I doubt it's only devices with RAM that was soldered down and branded Apple. Regarding spilling on keyboards: I don't know anyone personally who does that, in my local area people don't eat or drink next to their devices. I do have plenty of people I don't personally know that did ruin their computers that way and I have replaced plenty of Apple keyboards and entire topcases to solve it. Works fine as a side-business. Repairing is not the same as upgrading, and recycling is not the same as throwing away, and neither is reusing. The difference is important, as the solution changes with the case. Overall, this would be more fitting in a general discussion on environmental impact and not as much one about software, the hardware it runs on, and human behaviour. If you want to solve a big problem you need to generify instead of brand it as far as I know. To dive in a little deeper: to 'fix' this, people need to spend less time on how beautiful their stuff is, or how cool they look, and go a more utilitarian route. But since the American economy is built around the opposite and the western European one has the tendency to follow it in some aspects that's unlikely to happy any time soon. Changing people is hard, it's also the best way to solve or fix or change anything.
    - Voloskaya 6y ago
      > Those are not laptops, those are iPads, which weren't modular to begin with. Sorry, I thought this was illustrative enough to make my point, but if we have to be pendantic then here you go the exact same thing but with Macbooks: https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1251533085734252549 https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1251533085734252549 > in my local area people don't eat or drink next to their devices Interesting local area you have there, at my office and all the offices i was in the past everyone has a cup of coffee right next to their laptop.
      - oneplane 6y ago
        > https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1251533085734252549 https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1251533085734252549 Again, two MacBooks and not millions, as explained in the twitter thread. Again, not defective but locked by the previous owner. Not even remotely related to 'right to repair'. As an owner, I want to be sure that when I lock a device, it's actually unusable to anyone else. So this is good (for me).
        alacombe 6y ago
        > As an owner, I want to be sure that when I lock a device, it's actually unusable to anyone else. So this is good (for me). You want your data to be inaccessible. Not providing a way to factory-reset a perfectly functioning device (say, by replacing a modular storage) is just irresponsible.
        oneplane 6y ago
        Well, I want my device to only be usable to me unless I say otherwise. When I sell it I'll sell it unlocked.
        comex 6y ago
        No, you want it to be unusable, because this greatly reduces the incentive for theft.
dheera 6y ago
Not only that, but also: * Apple charges +$800 for 64GB of RAM, which on Amazon would cost you around $300-350. * Apple costs $1600 for 4TB of SSD, which on Amazon would cost you around $450-600. * Soldering the SSD to the motherboard is an enormously horrible engineering decision for both servicing, backups, and data recovery.
- HappyDreamer 6y ago
  > Soldering the SSD to the motherboard is an enormously horrible engineering decision And a good sell-more-laptops business decision?
- webmobdev 6y ago
  Exactly. I feel more of us should speak up like this and not let ignorant users or shills try to sell this message that soldering down components and making it extremely difficult to replace parts like a battery is a "great thing" being done for the benefit of the consumer.
  - nojito 6y ago
    Thinner devices are great for the consumer.
  - tonyedgecombe 6y ago
    Reliability is far more important than repairability. I don't need to worry about replacing components if they don't go wrong.
    - webmobdev 6y ago
      > Reliability is far more important than repairability. And why do you think they are exclusive to each other? I have a, I kid you not, nearly 15+ year old washing machine that I am still using. I had to replace 2 parts, due to wear and tear, in the last 5 years and it still runs as good. I am glad that I could repair it for a fraction of the cost than dump it and buy a new one.

oneplane 6y ago

You assume that people have to throw away millions of laptops, but his comment (and mine) refer to the fact that a recent laptop works fine for 6+ years as-is. The lifecycle doesn't shorten but the need to toy with the innards has gone away for a lot of people.

Voloskaya 6y ago
> You assume that people have to throw away millions of laptops Hmm yes I do: https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1275100376350384132 https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1275100376350384132 Have you also never had anyone you know spilling liquid on their keyboard after the warranty expired? Or dropped it? So in the end yes, I am pretty sure that there are literal millions of devices being thrown away because repairing them is too expensive. Edit: I'll also add that in 6 years using a mac, Apple replaced my macbook entirely twice for some issue that you would hope could be fixed without throwing everything away. So, sure, the customer is happy because they got a brand new device. But personnally I would rather stick with my 1 year old device and reduce environmental impact.
- oneplane 6y ago
  Those are not laptops, those are iPads, which weren't modular to begin with. Also, not broken, but locked, because the previous owner didn't unlock them before discarding them. Are there millions of devices that get thrown away in general? Sure. But I doubt it's only devices with RAM that was soldered down and branded Apple. Regarding spilling on keyboards: I don't know anyone personally who does that, in my local area people don't eat or drink next to their devices. I do have plenty of people I don't personally know that did ruin their computers that way and I have replaced plenty of Apple keyboards and entire topcases to solve it. Works fine as a side-business. Repairing is not the same as upgrading, and recycling is not the same as throwing away, and neither is reusing. The difference is important, as the solution changes with the case. Overall, this would be more fitting in a general discussion on environmental impact and not as much one about software, the hardware it runs on, and human behaviour. If you want to solve a big problem you need to generify instead of brand it as far as I know. To dive in a little deeper: to 'fix' this, people need to spend less time on how beautiful their stuff is, or how cool they look, and go a more utilitarian route. But since the American economy is built around the opposite and the western European one has the tendency to follow it in some aspects that's unlikely to happy any time soon. Changing people is hard, it's also the best way to solve or fix or change anything.
  - Voloskaya 6y ago
    > Those are not laptops, those are iPads, which weren't modular to begin with. Sorry, I thought this was illustrative enough to make my point, but if we have to be pendantic then here you go the exact same thing but with Macbooks: https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1251533085734252549 https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1251533085734252549 > in my local area people don't eat or drink next to their devices Interesting local area you have there, at my office and all the offices i was in the past everyone has a cup of coffee right next to their laptop.
    - oneplane 6y ago
      > https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1251533085734252549 https://twitter.com/RDKLInc/status/1251533085734252549 Again, two MacBooks and not millions, as explained in the twitter thread. Again, not defective but locked by the previous owner. Not even remotely related to 'right to repair'. As an owner, I want to be sure that when I lock a device, it's actually unusable to anyone else. So this is good (for me).
      - alacombe 6y ago
        > As an owner, I want to be sure that when I lock a device, it's actually unusable to anyone else. So this is good (for me). You want your data to be inaccessible. Not providing a way to factory-reset a perfectly functioning device (say, by replacing a modular storage) is just irresponsible.
        oneplane 6y ago
        Well, I want my device to only be usable to me unless I say otherwise. When I sell it I'll sell it unlocked.
        comex 6y ago
        No, you want it to be unusable, because this greatly reduces the incentive for theft.

dheera 6y ago

Not only that, but also: * Apple charges +$800 for 64GB of RAM, which on Amazon would cost you around $300-350. * Apple costs $1600 for 4TB of SSD, which on Amazon would cost you around $450-600. * Soldering the SSD to the motherboard is an enormously horrible engineering decision for both servicing, backups, and data recovery.

HappyDreamer 6y ago
> Soldering the SSD to the motherboard is an enormously horrible engineering decision And a good sell-more-laptops business decision?
webmobdev 6y ago
Exactly. I feel more of us should speak up like this and not let ignorant users or shills try to sell this message that soldering down components and making it extremely difficult to replace parts like a battery is a "great thing" being done for the benefit of the consumer.
- nojito 6y ago
  Thinner devices are great for the consumer.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  Reliability is far more important than repairability. I don't need to worry about replacing components if they don't go wrong.
  - webmobdev 6y ago
    > Reliability is far more important than repairability. And why do you think they are exclusive to each other? I have a, I kid you not, nearly 15+ year old washing machine that I am still using. I had to replace 2 parts, due to wear and tear, in the last 5 years and it still runs as good. I am glad that I could repair it for a fraction of the cost than dump it and buy a new one.