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I really hope that Snapchat can build out this platform. I love their core services (chatting and stories), and would trust them significantly more as a sign-in

I really hope that Snapchat can build out this platform. I love their core services (chatting and stories), and would trust them significantly more as a sign-in partner compared to Facebook or Google.

Nextgrid 6y ago
Why do you trust them more? Is it just because of their relatively small size compared to the big players? Personally I wouldn't touch that company even with a barge pole. Their business model is no different than the big players, except their ads seem to be even more noxious than those peddled by the big players. Google & Facebook have a wide range of ads, both good products as well as trash, while Snapchat seems to be very focused on trashy clickbait with little valuable content. Their privacy situation is also a major problem and is not GDPR compliant (not saying the others are, but that still doesn't excuse them with breaking EU regulations). They are extremely hostile to third-party developers with significant obfuscation efforts around their private API. They are very likely to "pull a Twitter" when it comes to restricting access to their currently open APIs and leave developers stranded. Twitter also used to be very friendly towards developers, before abruptly shutting down most of their APIs and rendering products built on them completely useless (or neutered beyond any significant value), sometimes destroying entire business built around their platform. Their lunch is also being eaten by Instagram, which puts them in a risky position with regards to profitability and increases the likelihood of them doing something nasty to try turn the ship around at the expense of developers who committed to the platform.
- parliament32 6y ago
  I'm not a huge Snapchat fanboy, but some of this doesn't make much sense. >their ads seem to be even more noxious I don't think I've ever seen an ad in Snapchat. It's all buried in the Discover page that nobody uses anyway. As opposed to, ahem, Insta which injects an ad into every story you view. >They are extremely hostile to third-party developers with significant obfuscation efforts around their private API. That's kinda, you know, the entire point of their app. It's all geared around ensuring the user's privacy -- ensuring snaps are ephemeral, not stealthily recorded or captured. Of course they're jumping through hoops to defend their private API. >a risky position with regards to profitability Is it? https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/us/snap_inc/SEC/sec-show.aspx?Type=page&FilingId=13887415-236005-251545&CIK=0001564408&Index=12200 https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/us/snap_inc/SEC/sec-s...
  - ladberg 6y ago
    When viewing people's stories all at once I feel like I get semi-NSFW ads in between every person's story, which makes me want to just leave the app.
    - parliament32 6y ago
      Maybe it's a UI thing. I only watch individual stories, from the left pane, because I really don't care about watching someone's story who I haven't talked to in six months -- if they're scrolled out of that view I probably don't care about them that much.
      - ladberg 6y ago
        Yeah that makes sense. I don't use Snapchat much so when I go on every few days I just like to see everyone's stories in a row then exit.
  - Nextgrid 6y ago
    > I don't think I've ever seen an ad in Snapchat. It's all buried in the Discover page that nobody uses anyway (emphasis mine) But isn’t that a bit of a problem when it comes to ads where you want people to see them if you want to get paid? So they’re bound to increase their ad intrusiveness at some point and with the quality of ads in there I’m not sure people will put up with it. > It's all geared around ensuring the user's privacy Security by obscurity doesn’t really work though, it’s always going to be a game of cat & mouse and leaks are bound to happen. On the other hand, their current approach of obfuscation prevents a lot of valid & non-malicious use-cases like desktop clients, scheduled posts, etc. > Is it? Instagram still seems to be crushing them when it comes to active users, plus Facebook has the ability to run it at a loss for an insane amount of time if they wanted to, letting the competition (such as Snap) starve to death.
    - Misdicorl 6y ago
      > Security by obscurity doesn’t really work though Obscurity is a completely cromulent, and actually decently effective (as clearly evidenced by Snap), stage to a defense in depth architecture.
- rvz 6y ago
  > They are extremely hostile to third-party developers with significant obfuscation efforts around their private API. Because of this, that's why there's no bots on Snapchat for a long time (yet). Bots have proliferated all over TikTok, Instagram and Twitter since they became mainstream and still to this day. Snap already has official SDKs for third-party developers for years that allow you to deal with login which they control that allows them to expand out into other apps, for example.

Nextgrid 6y ago

Why do you trust them more? Is it just because of their relatively small size compared to the big players? Personally I wouldn't touch that company even with a barge pole. Their business model is no different than the big players, except their ads seem to be even more noxious than those peddled by the big players. Google & Facebook have a wide range of ads, both good products as well as trash, while Snapchat seems to be very focused on trashy clickbait with little valuable content. Their privacy situation is also a major problem and is not GDPR compliant (not saying the others are, but that still doesn't excuse them with breaking EU regulations). They are extremely hostile to third-party developers with significant obfuscation efforts around their private API. They are very likely to "pull a Twitter" when it comes to restricting access to their currently open APIs and leave developers stranded. Twitter also used to be very friendly towards developers, before abruptly shutting down most of their APIs and rendering products built on them completely useless (or neutered beyond any significant value), sometimes destroying entire business built around their platform. Their lunch is also being eaten by Instagram, which puts them in a risky position with regards to profitability and increases the likelihood of them doing something nasty to try turn the ship around at the expense of developers who committed to the platform.

parliament32 6y ago
I'm not a huge Snapchat fanboy, but some of this doesn't make much sense. >their ads seem to be even more noxious I don't think I've ever seen an ad in Snapchat. It's all buried in the Discover page that nobody uses anyway. As opposed to, ahem, Insta which injects an ad into every story you view. >They are extremely hostile to third-party developers with significant obfuscation efforts around their private API. That's kinda, you know, the entire point of their app. It's all geared around ensuring the user's privacy -- ensuring snaps are ephemeral, not stealthily recorded or captured. Of course they're jumping through hoops to defend their private API. >a risky position with regards to profitability Is it? https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/us/snap_inc/SEC/sec-show.aspx?Type=page&FilingId=13887415-236005-251545&CIK=0001564408&Index=12200 https://otp.tools.investis.com/clients/us/snap_inc/SEC/sec-s...
- ladberg 6y ago
  When viewing people's stories all at once I feel like I get semi-NSFW ads in between every person's story, which makes me want to just leave the app.
  - parliament32 6y ago
    Maybe it's a UI thing. I only watch individual stories, from the left pane, because I really don't care about watching someone's story who I haven't talked to in six months -- if they're scrolled out of that view I probably don't care about them that much.
    - ladberg 6y ago
      Yeah that makes sense. I don't use Snapchat much so when I go on every few days I just like to see everyone's stories in a row then exit.
- Nextgrid 6y ago
  > I don't think I've ever seen an ad in Snapchat. It's all buried in the Discover page that nobody uses anyway (emphasis mine) But isn’t that a bit of a problem when it comes to ads where you want people to see them if you want to get paid? So they’re bound to increase their ad intrusiveness at some point and with the quality of ads in there I’m not sure people will put up with it. > It's all geared around ensuring the user's privacy Security by obscurity doesn’t really work though, it’s always going to be a game of cat & mouse and leaks are bound to happen. On the other hand, their current approach of obfuscation prevents a lot of valid & non-malicious use-cases like desktop clients, scheduled posts, etc. > Is it? Instagram still seems to be crushing them when it comes to active users, plus Facebook has the ability to run it at a loss for an insane amount of time if they wanted to, letting the competition (such as Snap) starve to death.
  - Misdicorl 6y ago
    > Security by obscurity doesn’t really work though Obscurity is a completely cromulent, and actually decently effective (as clearly evidenced by Snap), stage to a defense in depth architecture.
rvz 6y ago
> They are extremely hostile to third-party developers with significant obfuscation efforts around their private API. Because of this, that's why there's no bots on Snapchat for a long time (yet). Bots have proliferated all over TikTok, Instagram and Twitter since they became mainstream and still to this day. Snap already has official SDKs for third-party developers for years that allow you to deal with login which they control that allows them to expand out into other apps, for example.