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I have quite a bit of faith in numbers related to deaths. There is a lot of paperwork involved, a body (with bullet holes), perhaps a 911 call, often a medical

I have quite a bit of faith in numbers related to deaths. There is a lot of paperwork involved, a body (with bullet holes), perhaps a 911 call, often a medical examiner or coroner's report, potentially lawsuits, funerals, etc. And now there are cameras a lot of places. I guess there could be outright premeditated cold-blooded murders that are disguised as suicides, but I can't imagine that's very common. I mean, you can't bring a body in with a zillion bullet holes and tell the coroner it was suicide. And, as you point out, a noose is going to (hopefully) generate a lot of suspicion and a thorough investigation. The main area of uncertainty is not the number of police killings, but the number of justified versus unjustified killings.

dagnabbit 6y ago
The paperwork for Breonna Taylor said she had no injuries. She had been shot eight times while sleeping. You're a white supremacist and you are arguing in bad faith. Get the fuck into the sea, you vile fucking bigot.
FireBeyond 6y ago
> I mean, you can't bring a body in with a zillion bullet holes and tell the coroner it was suicide. But you can bring in a body that was in the backseat of your cop car, handcuffed behind the back, and with two shotgun wounds to the chest and tell the coroner it was suicide, and have it signed off on...
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  How many times do you believe that happens in a year, and what evidence do you have for that belief?
  - FireBeyond 6y ago
    How many times of this or similar things happening do you find acceptable? Or tolerable?
dragonwriter 6y ago
> I mean, you can't bring a body in with a zillion bullet holes and tell the coroner it was suicide. Well, no, because “zillion” isn't a number. But with actual numbers of bullet holes, yes, history shows that happens. And that the inconsistent injuries either get convenient explanations, or are left off the report as if they didn't happen. Now, when these things get additional public scrutiny, it's an embarrassment, but that usually hasn't happened, which is why there is a culture of impunity.
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  If you don't trust numbers from the washington post and the FBI, I'm not sure how we can expect to have a productive conversation. That isn't to say that coverups don't happen, and numbers aren't occasionally wrong or manipulated. But how far off do you think these numbers really are? And do you expect these numbers are manipulated even in areas with black chiefs of police, attorneys general, and distict attorneys?
  - dlp211 6y ago
    Those numbers can be seen as the minimum, the same way the reported number of COVID related deaths are the minimum. The actual numbers are all but guaranteed to be more.
Kluny 6y ago
I used to have that faith too, but the stories that have been coming out recently have made me doubt almost all reports provided by police and coroners, even with cameras in place. What motivation do they have to provide accurate information, without any third party oversight?

dagnabbit 6y ago

The paperwork for Breonna Taylor said she had no injuries. She had been shot eight times while sleeping. You're a white supremacist and you are arguing in bad faith. Get the fuck into the sea, you vile fucking bigot.

FireBeyond 6y ago

> I mean, you can't bring a body in with a zillion bullet holes and tell the coroner it was suicide. But you can bring in a body that was in the backseat of your cop car, handcuffed behind the back, and with two shotgun wounds to the chest and tell the coroner it was suicide, and have it signed off on...

jeffdavis 6y ago
How many times do you believe that happens in a year, and what evidence do you have for that belief?
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  How many times of this or similar things happening do you find acceptable? Or tolerable?

dragonwriter 6y ago

> I mean, you can't bring a body in with a zillion bullet holes and tell the coroner it was suicide. Well, no, because “zillion” isn't a number. But with actual numbers of bullet holes, yes, history shows that happens. And that the inconsistent injuries either get convenient explanations, or are left off the report as if they didn't happen. Now, when these things get additional public scrutiny, it's an embarrassment, but that usually hasn't happened, which is why there is a culture of impunity.

jeffdavis 6y ago
If you don't trust numbers from the washington post and the FBI, I'm not sure how we can expect to have a productive conversation. That isn't to say that coverups don't happen, and numbers aren't occasionally wrong or manipulated. But how far off do you think these numbers really are? And do you expect these numbers are manipulated even in areas with black chiefs of police, attorneys general, and distict attorneys?
- dlp211 6y ago
  Those numbers can be seen as the minimum, the same way the reported number of COVID related deaths are the minimum. The actual numbers are all but guaranteed to be more.

Kluny 6y ago

I used to have that faith too, but the stories that have been coming out recently have made me doubt almost all reports provided by police and coroners, even with cameras in place. What motivation do they have to provide accurate information, without any third party oversight?