5 ms·

It's relevent because you need to compare the costs of police (e.g. police violence) to the scale of problem that is supposedly being solved (e.g. murders). Yo

It's relevent because you need to compare the costs of police (e.g. police violence) to the scale of problem that is supposedly being solved (e.g. murders). You can choose to fear who you want to fear, I guess. But the numbers seem to suggest pretty much everyone should be more concerned about being murdered than being killed by police. Being killed by police is more of a betrayal, for sure. For that reason it might be worse in some sense. But I'm not sure why that should result in disproportionate fear on the order of 20X. Also, I should say that it's much harder to pin down how many murders police prevent.

shadowgovt 6y ago
Murder is an understood societal outlier that society doesn't tolerate. Society is disquietingly tolerant of murder when the murderer is wearing a badge and executing a suspect "In the line of duty." If not for the nationwide protests, it is extremely likely the murderers of George Floyd would still be employed by their police departments, forget arrested.
- jeffdavis 6y ago
  "Society is disquietingly tolerant of murder when the murderer is wearing a badge" I agree. But the original post seemed to be saying that it was rational for blacks to be carefree about criminals and afraid of police, which just doesn't seem in line with the data. And it's also disquieting how little people seem to care about murder victims, who are much more numerous and also disproportionately black (by a greater factor than the disproportionate killings by police). Those black lives matter, too.
  - c22 6y ago
    Criminals don't wear uniforms, you can't tell them apart from regular people when you see them in public. Regular people who mean you no harm outnumber criminals significantly and it would be absurd to fear them. Police officers are instantly recognizable. If you're statistically more likely to be harmed by the police than by a regular person then it is completely rational to be concerned when you see one.
kls 6y ago
>disproportionate fear on the order of 20X Because if you successfully defend yourself from a murderer you have a rightful plea to self defense. If you successfully defend yourself from a cop trying to murder you. You will be lucky with life without the possibility of parole. There is an implicit cannot flee cannot fight in an interaction with a law enforcement officer. So pretty much your natural fight or flight is neutralized and that is a hell of a situation to be in.

shadowgovt 6y ago

Murder is an understood societal outlier that society doesn't tolerate. Society is disquietingly tolerant of murder when the murderer is wearing a badge and executing a suspect "In the line of duty." If not for the nationwide protests, it is extremely likely the murderers of George Floyd would still be employed by their police departments, forget arrested.

jeffdavis 6y ago
"Society is disquietingly tolerant of murder when the murderer is wearing a badge" I agree. But the original post seemed to be saying that it was rational for blacks to be carefree about criminals and afraid of police, which just doesn't seem in line with the data. And it's also disquieting how little people seem to care about murder victims, who are much more numerous and also disproportionately black (by a greater factor than the disproportionate killings by police). Those black lives matter, too.
- c22 6y ago
  Criminals don't wear uniforms, you can't tell them apart from regular people when you see them in public. Regular people who mean you no harm outnumber criminals significantly and it would be absurd to fear them. Police officers are instantly recognizable. If you're statistically more likely to be harmed by the police than by a regular person then it is completely rational to be concerned when you see one.

kls 6y ago

>disproportionate fear on the order of 20X Because if you successfully defend yourself from a murderer you have a rightful plea to self defense. If you successfully defend yourself from a cop trying to murder you. You will be lucky with life without the possibility of parole. There is an implicit cannot flee cannot fight in an interaction with a law enforcement officer. So pretty much your natural fight or flight is neutralized and that is a hell of a situation to be in.