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I think there is an unrealistic but understandable desire to have some way giant disorderly masses of people can be managed with perfect safety. Crowds are int

I think there is an unrealistic but understandable desire to have some way giant disorderly masses of people can be managed with perfect safety. Crowds are intrinsically dangerous, even fully peaceable people following every instruction can crush or trample individuals. To whatever degree a crowd is more antagonistic to control measures, the risk increases. I, personally, can’t figure out a way for any of this to be safe. Every intervention injured and upsets people, while zero intervention runs a risk of many injuries and property damage. It just seems so difficult.

badRNG 6y ago
If you have a group of people upset and disenfranchised enough to leave their homes to protest, it doesn't seem like beating them, shooting their eyes out or gassing them is going to defuse or better the situation. It seems that rarely does this disincentive the protesters. This isn't making anyone more safe though I'm not sure that's the purpose of the riot police. They are already out protesting because they don't feel they have a voice any other way. If the state they feel doesn't hear them decides to attack them (in many cases unprovoked) they'll run to the next block and burn the city down. What else are they to do?
kqr 6y ago
The way I understand the social dynamics at play, it's classic longtermism vs shorttermism. But first: many of these crowds the police are trying to control were not in need of being externally controlled. They might look scary if you're part of the establishment they're protesting against, but the vast majority of people are not out to cause harm -- it's the opposite. Now, as you say, zero intervention does run a risk of injuries and property damage. What you left out is in the short term. Intervention might prevent that, but it will (as I understand it) greatly increase public sympathy for the protester's cause. In the long term, it runs a risk of causing even greater number of injuries and property damage. So as Deming might have said, the US and its police force are a system that's already set up for injuries and property damage. You can't force your way out of that without causing more injuries and property damage. The course has been set, even if not all the events are played out yet. The only thing that can be done is absorb the blow, listen to the people, and build something great out of the ashes to replace the old system. But the system needs to be rebuilt. It cannot be tweaked into working. It cannot be fixed by force.

badRNG 6y ago

If you have a group of people upset and disenfranchised enough to leave their homes to protest, it doesn't seem like beating them, shooting their eyes out or gassing them is going to defuse or better the situation. It seems that rarely does this disincentive the protesters. This isn't making anyone more safe though I'm not sure that's the purpose of the riot police. They are already out protesting because they don't feel they have a voice any other way. If the state they feel doesn't hear them decides to attack them (in many cases unprovoked) they'll run to the next block and burn the city down. What else are they to do?

kqr 6y ago

The way I understand the social dynamics at play, it's classic longtermism vs shorttermism. But first: many of these crowds the police are trying to control were not in need of being externally controlled. They might look scary if you're part of the establishment they're protesting against, but the vast majority of people are not out to cause harm -- it's the opposite. Now, as you say, zero intervention does run a risk of injuries and property damage. What you left out is in the short term. Intervention might prevent that, but it will (as I understand it) greatly increase public sympathy for the protester's cause. In the long term, it runs a risk of causing even greater number of injuries and property damage. So as Deming might have said, the US and its police force are a system that's already set up for injuries and property damage. You can't force your way out of that without causing more injuries and property damage. The course has been set, even if not all the events are played out yet. The only thing that can be done is absorb the blow, listen to the people, and build something great out of the ashes to replace the old system. But the system needs to be rebuilt. It cannot be tweaked into working. It cannot be fixed by force.